It'll have to affect the whole country. We have plenty of petroleum but refining it will be even more of a bottleneck so prices will increase until demand lowers enough to be met.

This will cause problems for everyone, not just CA, AZ, NV et al.

IF CA refineries close then the others have to make it up, and there is then less total US capacity to refine oil.

Everyone's prices will go up, as a result of CA political environment, and not just fuel..

Wouldn't be surprised that CA politicians are working to get them out of the state and force people to electric. Wait until they work on getting BYD cars into CA, to hurt Tesla, even though Tesla is in CA....

Not only are they attacking gas, they are also attacking Solar electricity production.

I have Solar panels on my roof and they have cut the excess buy back price by 40%. Now they are proposing another 80% cut to the buy back price.

This is the result of the law that has been implemented that all new homes have to have solar power installed. Then the unintended consequences is the power companies $$$ are shrinking. They don’t have enough money coming in. Who would have thought that…

This makes me happy that I made the decision to buy my Mach E. Not to save the planet but because it’s a blast to drive.

California Dem politicians are truly stupid and evil!

The state has gone way down from the era of the President Reagan governed state of my childhood.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
It'll have to affect the whole country. We have plenty of petroleum but refining it will be even more of a bottleneck so prices will increase until demand lowers enough to be met.

Gasoline and diesel are fungible (i.e. made to an ASTM standard and that standard can be purchased from practically every refinery on the planet). The differentiator happens at the distribution terminal loading rack where they either add generic or proprietary additives, ULSD lubricant, etc. as they load the tanker trucks to deliver to gas stations.

The East Coast of the US has been importing European gasoline for years and very few consumers realize it. The biggest flaw with the model is that they're essentially bidding against world open market for a highly mobile supply (i.e. barge/tanker), and if there is an upset in Europe, Africa, or Middle East they have to outbid the people with the shortage (i.e. East Coast prices increase). The second biggest flaw in the model instead of utilizing refined product made from free-market North American crude oil they are bidding on refined product made from OPEC or OPEC+ crude oil who plays all kinds of anti-free market games with supply which impacts prices.

California could do the same with importing refined product from Asia and Latin America. However, for that to work they'd have to resist the urge to listen to the environmental people who want to outlaw tanker/barge offloading. Unfortunately, they don't have a good history in that regard. I was tangentially involved ~25 years ago with Plan B after the local and state government teamed up to cease tanker/barge operations in one location in California, and had 2 buddies involved in Plan C when Cali shot the industry's plan B in the foot ~10 years later.

Maybe TatorTodd could chime in on this. Please.

This needs to be built. Hydrogen powered to zero emissions? I know nothing about that, I hope to learn more about it.

This is about an hour from where I live.

""""" Plans to Build a $5.5 Billion Refinery in Cushing Have Been Delayed
07.19.2024 By Tank Terminals - NEWS

July 19, 2024 [Simbaforkids]- In May 2023, it was announced that Southern Rock Energy Partners would build the nation’s first major refinery in 45 years in Cushing. Officials said they envision a “next-generation” refinery complex that will generate and consume hydrogen as a fuel source, with the goal of having a zero carbon footprint.


As planned, the facility will have the capacity to produce more than 91 million gallons of fuels annually, including gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. Construction work on the facility was scheduled to begin early this year.

Southern Rock managing member Steven Ward said on Wednesday that unforeseen challenges, including land acquisition, had been met by the company and had pushed back its timetable for developing and opening the facility.

Ward said Southern Rock remains committed to opening the refinery complex near Cushing.

“The site we chose we couldn’t acquire, so now we’re working on acquiring another site, possibly a little further from Cushing proper,” Ward said.

As planned, the refinery would occupy about 400 acres; the entire complex would cover a minimum of 640 acres.

Ward said local and state leaders remain very supportive of the project. The refinery is expected to create more than 420 full-time jobs and generate more than $18 billion in economic impact in its first decade of operation.

He said Southern Rock, based in El Campo, Texas, has also attracted support from leading energy companies in the industry interested in the “synergies” a Cushing refinery that harnesses modern technologies would provide.

Cushing, with a well-established energy infrastructure, including tank farms capable of storing approximately 100 million barrels of crude oil, has been called the “pipeline crossroads of the world.” Over its history, more than 50 refineries have been centered around the Payne County community, which has a population of about 7,800.

Cushing’s vast network of storage and pipelines has made it a critical part of the nation’s energy sector.

“We are still motivated to be in Cushing. It’s just taking a little longer than we expected,” Ward said. “Projects of this size are always going to be a challenge, but we knew that going in and we’ve managed those challenges and we still have every intention of moving forward.”

It was reported in 2023 that the state offered about $1.5 billion in economic incentives to Southern Rock, while Cushing offered about $75 million in incentives.

“As the ‘crossroads of the world,’ Cushing is the perfect location for this project. We look forward to working with the company and the Cushing community to further strengthen Oklahoma’s ‘all of the above’ energy approach with the addition of this $5.5 billion facility,” said Brent Kisling, who at the time at one time he was the executive director of Oklahoma. Commercial department. """"



TankTerminals.com is a market research platform with operational, infrastructural and contact details of more than +8,500 tank terminals and +5,000 production facilities worldwide.

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Regarding refinery bottlenecks that some have mentioned, I would think that there is underutilized refinery / refining capacity in parts of the USA due to FJB’s sock-puppet masters waging regulatory war and other shenanigans against them, whereby they can now get their idled capacity up and running again to meet greater demands.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
This will cause problems for everyone, not just CA, AZ, NV et al.

Regardless, this is going to have potentially serious impacts on AZ, at least the greater Phoenix area. The fuel blend Maricopa county mandates is only refined in California refineries, and that's where our fuel pipeline comes from. Tucson gets their oil mostly from NM and TX, so their prices are different. Pipeline here comes out in metro Phoenix, so the prices in the middle of the city are generally the lowest, and it gets spendier the further out you are, like I am.

I don't see myself getting rid of my truck, but I may see about finding an old Corolla or Camry something for most of my around-town driving if gas prices go totally nuts.

The problem with all of California's bullshit is it doesn't just affect them, it radiates outward. At least if gas prices go completely fucktarded here, maybe it'll wake up some of the dem voters who seem to have an enclave in Phoenix.

It's going to exacerbate what is essentially a nationwide problem.
According to google AI:
The last significant oil refinery built in the US was completed in 1976 at Marathon Petroleum's facility in Garyville, Louisiana. While a small, privately owned refinery in Texas opened in 2022, the Marathon facility in Garyville remains the newest refinery with significant capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Maybe TatorTodd could chime in on this. Please.

This needs to be built. Hydrogen powered to zero emissions? I know nothing about that, I hope to learn more about it.

This is about an hour from where I live.

Interesting. I hadn't seen the proposed Cushing refinery news previously.

I opened up EIA's interactive domestic energy map and played with the filters a bit. Cushing makes sense from a crude oil perspective as it's the physical location for NYMEX storage and trading, and there are crude oil pipelines from North American crude as well as connected to ports for international crude. Cushing also makes sense from a natural gas pipeline perspective (i.e. see hydrogen discussion later in post). The downside is it's not in a great location from a demand perspective, and would mostly serve St. Louis and Chicago markets.

From a demand perspective, I'd much rather see a refinery built in Georgia or South Carolina. There are zero refineries between Alabama and Delaware, and this whole region is importing refined product from refineries in Texas, Louisiana, and Alabama. There is still a shortage of refining further north on east coast which is being fed by fungible gasoline from Europe (see previous post) and the same refined products pipeline tied to the refineries in TX, LA, and AL.

Let's focus on what the article means by hydrogen and zero emissions. Essentially, what the industry is doing is going for net zero emissions for greenhouse gases (GHG). Net zero emissions are calculating refinery GHG released into the atmosphere minus the amount GHG removed from the atmosphere and going from that number being positive to that number being zero. They're looking at or already modifying existing refineries too so from that perspective this proposed refinery isn't unique. In a nutshell, my 8 sentence summary is:

Install carbon capture on GHG emissions, inject the "carbon" in a CO2 stream, connect to a CO2 pipeline, transport to oilfield, and inject into reservoir. Existing oil fields will use CO2 as enhanced oil recovery and former oil fields will use the reservoir's "pore space" to capture the "carbon" forever.

refineries already make hydrogen but its largely for their own use and many publications are calling this legacy technology grey hydrogen. Lots of initiatives on-going for expanding and modifying hydrogen making process into what is known as blue hydrogen due to reducing GHG. This is article that decodes the industry jargon of using "colors" to classify ways of producing hydrogen.

Process crude oil, natural gas, and other inputs into hydrogen or ammonia (NH3) and transport. Hydrogen likely injected into both dedicated hydrogen pipelines and blended into natural gas pipelines. NH3 likely an export product as it's far easier to transport on ships than hydrogen.

If you're interested in reading more, this is a pretty good article.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tatortodd,

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Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

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Good.

They say that things have to get bad before people change their mind about how they vote. Maybe this may be enough. Maybe not, maybe the elections in California are so rigged that it won’t have an impact. But, with Newsome having higher office aspirations, it’ll hang around his neck with voters like a noose.

I can’t tell you around here that one of people’s biggest fears is this place becoming California.

Obama wanted $8 a gallon gas in 2012. Isn't California mandating electric cars? This will just help achieve that.

What could go wrong?

Valero has plans to shutdown the Benicia Refinery in April of 2026.