quote:

Naval officers simply don't have it compared to a professional US merchant mariner.

Indeed. I'm getting really concerned now that all of those submariners and their boats that are out there on patrol will never make it back home.
And the aviators...I hope they were trained with merchant marine trainer aircraft by merchant marine aviators or we're in big trouble there, too.
And the nuclear power plants...OMG, Just thinking about who in the US Navy is responsible for those sends shivers down my spine.
God bless 'em all.

The Flyboys seem to have stand downs for safety purposes all the time. It seems to me the Navy and Cost Guard need to do the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by FRANKT:

quote:

Naval officers simply don't have it compared to a professional US merchant mariner.

Indeed. I'm getting really concerned now that all of those submariners and their boats that are out there on patrol will never make it back home.
And the aviators...I hope they were trained with merchant marine trainer aircraft by merchant marine aviators or we're in big trouble there, too.
And the nuclear power plants...OMG, Just thinking about who in the US Navy is responsible for those sends shivers down my spine.
God bless 'em all.

I got a whiff of sarcasm there.

Perhaps navy helmsmen and navigators need to cross-train with the USCG?

quote:

Originally posted by Anarion:
Perhaps navy helmsmen and navigators need to cross-train with the USCG?

I think the more accurate argument (which seems rational at the moment) is that they need to do a tour with merchant marines before they get checked off to drive a boat.

quote:

Originally posted by FRANKT:

quote:

Naval officers simply don't have it compared to a professional US merchant mariner.

Indeed. I'm getting really concerned now that all of those submariners and their boats that are out there on patrol will never make it back home.
And the aviators...I hope they were trained with merchant marine trainer aircraft by merchant marine aviators or we're in big trouble there, too.
And the nuclear power plants...OMG, Just thinking about who in the US Navy is responsible for those sends shivers down my spine.
God bless 'em all.

Well their record of late is less than sterling.

I guess these boats need curb feelers now.

Maybe it should be turned over to an AI. If Deep-Blue and Alpha-Go can beat the best players at chess and Go, then driving a ship should be easy. Just don't tell Elon Musk. He'll lose his mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Anarion:
Perhaps navy helmsmen and navigators need to cross-train with the USCG?

Helm is only following orders from those who have a better perspective of things, more like the OOD/OOW are in need of better training and more practical time with ship handling.

http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/...-malacca-update-121/

7th Fleet:

SOUTH CHINA SEA - The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) was involved in a collision with the merchant vessel Alnic MC while underway east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore on Aug. 21.

There are currently 10 Sailors missing and five injured. Four of the injured were medically evacuated by a Republic of Singapore Navy Puma helicopter to a hospital in Singapore for non-life threatening injuries. The fifth injured Sailor does not require further medical attention.

The collision was reported at 6:24 a.m. Japan Standard Time, while the ship was transiting to a routine port visit in Singapore.

The ship is currently sailing under its own power and heading to Changi Naval Base. At this point, no fuel or oil is visible on the water’s surface near the ship.

Search and rescue efforts are underway in coordination with local authorities. In addition to tug boats out of Singapore, RSN Fearless-class patrol ships RSS Gallant (97), RSS Resilience (82), RSN helicopters and Singaporean Police Coast Guard vessel Basking Shark (55) are currently in the area to render assistance

An MH-60S helicopter from the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) is in the area providing search and rescue assistance. An additional MH-60S helicopter and MV-22 Osprey are expected to arrive soon.

Alnic MC is a Liberian-flagged 600-foot oil and chemical tanker with a gross tonnage of 30,000.

Initial reports indicate John S. McCain sustained damage to her port side aft. Damage control efforts continue while the extent of damage is being determined. The incident will be investigated.

Pictures now available

Looks like a slow crunch, any faster speed by the tanker and it could've sliced the destroyer in half.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-wa...ar-strait-of-malacca

From one of the comments:

quote:

So it is being reported that the crew is fighting flooding in two berthing spaces and Shaft Alley. On a Burke Class, Shaft Alley would include: Nr 4 A/C Plant, Nr 5 Firepump, Nr 5 Seawater Cooling Pump, lB and 2A Line Shaft Bearings ,Port Shaft Thrust Bearing.

My Navy friend said if they were following Restricted Maneuvering Doctrine due to the traffic in the straight, no one would have been sleeping.

Prayer for those injured, and for those missing as well as their families.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Maybe it should be turned over to an AI. If Deep-Blue and Alpha-Go can beat the best players at chess and Go, then driving a ship should be easy. Just don't tell Elon Musk. He'll lose his mind.

But what happens when Sky Net becomes self-aware?

When I was around 13 years old I took the Michigan Boater Safety class so that I could safely and legally operate a watercraft. I recall the instructor amid all of the rules, regulations, and basic seamanship told us one thing to remember above all else.

"Be aware, don't hit anything, don't let anything hit you"

Seems like a pretty basic rule that's getting missed somehow in higher levels of driving big boats.

The thing that really jumps to mind for me is even more simple. You're in command of a US Warship in international waters. It seems like the safety of the ship is the top priority, ie, don't let anyone close enough to fire anything at you. If that is the mentality, how the hell do you let tankers and cargo ships hit you????

Looks like the ship was trying to go to the left. How ironic. Regards 18DAI

I don't believe in coincidences, which leaves two possibilities:
1) A fatal fault in Navy training and administration.
2) Hostile action against Navy navigation networks.

I was trying to determine how many significant collisions involving US Navy warships there have been in the past 17 years, and I believe it was five. If that’s the average rate at which they occur, there’s about a five percent chance of two incidents happening within 60 days, or about the time between the Fitzgerald and the McCain: Not very likely, but certainly not impossible. Even if there were only the two incidents within 17 years, the probability of their happening by chance alone within 60 days of each other is about two percent, or 1 in 50.

Many seemingly strange things can happen purely by chance. As the skeptics like to point out about unusual phenomena, if there’s a one in a million chance per day of something’s happening to someone, it will happen to eight people a day in New York City.

Pay attention and live long enough as I have, and one will witness countless odd coincidences that have nothing whatsoever to do with space aliens—or even the Russians (as hard as I find that to believe; I’m convinced they’re going to get me yet).

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Pictures now available

Looks like a slow crunch, any faster speed by the tanker and it could've sliced the destroyer in half.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-wa...ar-strait-of-malacca

Houston, we have a problem.

"In May, the Lake Champlain, a Navy guided-missile cruiser, collided with a South Korean fishing vessel, but no injuries resulted from that crash. In February, another such cruiser, the Antietam, ran aground in Tokyo Bay, gushing more than 1,000 gallons of hydraulic fluid near the American naval base at Yokosuka."

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

Many seemingly strange things can happen purely by chance. As the skeptics like to point out about unusual phenomena, if there’s a one in a million chance per day of something’s happening to someone, it will happen to eight people a day in New York City.

Last year, the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels lost aircraft on the SAME DAY. The odds against that are astronomical, IMO.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kevbo:
'also hope everyone is safe'

Uh, no, there are TEN sailors missing and five injured.

'Detection is better now than its ever been'

Evidently not.

tac, deeply saddened.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:
AIS. Automatic Identification System, it has been mentioned here in passing, but I think it almost certainly played a role in this collision. To the .mil folks, think of it as an advanced civilian TACAN or IFF.

First, I extracted just two sentences from a rather lengthy post.

Thank you, CaptainMike, for sharing your view of the unfortunate event. It is A Good Thing to read this from folks like you and Alan (Balzé Halzé) who are professionals in this area.

I have just one sort of nit-picky thing re the last three words that I quoted from your post: "TACAN or IFF." My credentials: I maintained both types of equipment, TACAN and IFF, while I was in the Navy, and also for a while in civilian life when I finished my active Navy duty.

TACAN and IFF are two totally different systems, for totally different purposes. I think you probably meant "Transponder and / or IFF." Transponders, also called IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) in the early days, respond to inquiries by emitting a signal that carries data that basically identifies the vessel's or aircraft's ID on the inquiring radar. Big oversimplification, but it's a response to a "Who are you?" that is generally used for Air Traffic Control and, per your explanation, identification of marine vessels.

TACAN, on the other hand, is a totally different system. Where IFF is used to identify a vessel or aircraft, TACAN (the military version of civilian VORTAC) is a navigation aid. The TACAN or VORTAC base station transmits a signal. The receiver in the aircraft or marine vessel decodes this signal and informs the pilot, navigator, or whomever, of the aircraft's position relative to the base station in terms of radial (degrees, relative to north) and distance from the base station.

While many (most?) marine vessels might have receiving equipment for TACAN, the base stations are normally land-based. Other than aircraft carriers, I am not aware of any marine vessels that have TACAN base stations. There is a fairly limited frequency band available for TACAN; each base station has a frequency that can not be used by any other base station within reception range, so it is not practical for ships in general to be equipped with base station.