With the controversy of rebuilding Puerto Rico and possibly forgiving her huge debt, I find I'm at a conversational loss to understand and explain if the territory is entitled to the same aid from Uncle Sam as Texas and Florida, and the same FEMA aid personally to residents of the island. Perhaps 2 different things. It seems there is a grey area with the 14th Amendment, and if there are differing levels of citizenship. Who here knows well enough to grant an easy explanation of the differences?

Stated another way I understand the humanitarian side of asking for help. Is there a legal side to the attitude of being entitled to it?

In short they are Citizens, period. Because Puerto Rico is not a State they do not vote for President, Vice President, Senators, or a voting Member of the House. They do have a nonvoting Representative they elect. And Puerto Rican income is not subject to Federal Income Tax for Puerto Ricans.

Statehood is a big deal. Detroit192 explains their status nicely, but: Statehood is a big deal.

Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. They are free to re-locate to any of the 50 states. Once they establish residence in a state, they do have the privilege of voting, just as any other resident of that state.

While residing in Puerto Rico, they do not pay U.S. income tax, but they do pay Puerto Rican tax. It has been half a century since I lived there (working at an International Telephone & Telegraph lab) and if I remember correctly, my income was taxed at a higher rate for the island tax than it would have been for U.S. income tax.

There is no restriction on travel between the island and the U.S. states, neither for U.S. mainland residents nor for Puerto Ricans.

Actually, I'm trying to think of a good definition for a person who is referred to as a "Puerto Rican." Really no different than a Texan, or a New Yorker, etc.

As pointed out, the people there are fully-qualified American citizens. However, the island itself is just a territory, with its own laws.

Personally I don't see that we have more than a modest responsibility for rebuilding, or bailing out their bankruptcy, or anything else involving the island or the island's government. Our responsibility is to the people themselves, and they are perfectly free to come stateside just as you and I are free to cross any state border.

Maybe JALLEN can weigh in on this.

US passport then? No passports required traveling to/from?

Here are the ending excerpts from this link. The article is not a long read and lends some history to the advances of the status of 3 levels of territories.
Are Puerto Ricans really American citizens?

"It wasn’t until 1940 that Congress enacted legislation conferring birthright, or “jus soli,” (right of soil) citizenship on persons born in Puerto Rico. Whereas persons born in Puerto Rico prior to 1940 could only acquire a naturalized citizenship if their parents were U.S. citizens, anyone born in Puerto Rico after 1940 acquired a U.S. citizenship as a direct result of being born on Puerto Rican soil. This legislation both amended and replaced the Jones Act. The Nationality Act of 1940 established that Puerto Rico was a part of the United States for citizenship purposes. Since Jan. 13, 1941, birth in Puerto Rico amounts to birth in the United States for citizenship purposes.

However, the prevailing consensus among scholars, lawmakers and policymakers is that Puerto Ricans are not entitled to a constitutional citizenship status . While Puerto Ricans are officially U.S. citizens, the territory remains unincorporated. This contradiction has enabled the governance of Puerto Rico as a separate and unequal territory that belongs to, but is not a part of, the United States."

from detroit192
"In short they are Citizens, period. Because Puerto Rico is not a State they do not vote for President, Vice President, Senators, or a voting Member of the House. They do have a nonvoting Representative they elect. And Puerto Rican income is not subject to Federal Income Tax for Puerto Ricans."

So they do not pay into the US Treasury, and not subject to US law while in PR. Though granted equal citizen protections the article implies they are not granted full constitutional status.

I'm not refuting anyone or solving anything yet. The above is why I am asking for clarification.

quote:

. . . and not subject to US law while in PR.

That is absolutely not true. In fact PR has its own US District Court:
http://www.prd.uscourts.gov

Here is a link to the US Attorney's Office website in PR:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-pr

You can read press releases about recent cases there, at that site.

TY to DMF, good to know. I see where old info on our 2nd amendment rights was overturned in 2015.

quote:

Originally posted by mike_jackmin:
As pointed out, the people there are fully-qualified American citizens. However, the island itself is just a territory, with its own laws.

Personally I don't see that we have more than a modest responsibility for rebuilding, or bailing out their bankruptcy, or anything else involving the island or the island's government. Our responsibility is to the people themselves, and they are perfectly free to come stateside just as you and I are free to cross any state border.

If we don't help them rebuild somewhat. ALL of them will be relocating to here. Take that for what it's worth.

Exactly, and there are roughly 3.4 Million people in Puerto Rico.

At this point we may as well just bring it into the fold, develop the shit out of it, and turn it into Miami-South, or Vegas-Southeast, tourists galore, taxes galore, more beaches, etc.

What's the alternative? Bring all of those people here and just waste the Island itself?

Or worse, pay a bunch to rebuild it but don't really reap the benefits of it?

It's fucked either way. Why not at least gear up to profit from it instead?

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Exactly, and there are roughly 3.4 Million people in Puerto Rico.

At this point we may as well just bring it into the fold, develop the shit out of it, and turn it into Miami-South, or Vegas-Southeast, tourists galore, taxes galore, more beaches, etc.

What's the alternative? Bring all of those people here and just waste the Island itself?

Or worse, pay a bunch to rebuild it but don't really reap the benefits of it?

It's fucked either way. Why not at least gear up to profit from it instead?

PR was a Miami South till the Puerto Rican government started over taxing corporations in 1996. It had a ton of resorts, restaurants, things to do and the economy was booming. But it had a ton of things it couldn't have if a US state.....cock fighting arena's, casino's, whore houses, etc. which made it fun. But then the PR government started over taxing all of the corporations, they mostly pulled out, throwing the country into a huge recession.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Exactly, and there are roughly 3.4 Million people in Puerto Rico.

At this point we may as well just bring it into the fold, develop the shit out of it, and turn it into Miami-South, or Vegas-Southeast, tourists galore, taxes galore, more beaches, etc.

What's the alternative? Bring all of those people here and just waste the Island itself?

Or worse, pay a bunch to rebuild it but don't really reap the benefits of it?

It's fucked either way. Why not at least gear up to profit from it instead?

I agree. Either make it a State and tax the shit out of them like they do to the rest of us or cut it free and let them be just another country.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Exactly, and there are roughly 3.4 Million people in Puerto Rico.

At this point we may as well just bring it into the fold, develop the shit out of it, and turn it into Miami-South, or Vegas-Southeast, tourists galore, taxes galore, more beaches, etc.

What's the alternative? Bring all of those people here and just waste the Island itself?

Or worse, pay a bunch to rebuild it but don't really reap the benefits of it?

It's fucked either way. Why not at least gear up to profit from it instead?

I agree. Either make it a State and tax the shit out of them like they do to the rest of us or cut it free and let them be just another country.

Make it a state or give it to Cuba.

Make it a state or give it to Cuba.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah, make it a State. Two guaranteed democrat senators.

Give them complete independence!

"Venezuela de la Norte"!

quote:

Originally posted by mike_jackmin:
As pointed out, the people there are fully-qualified American citizens. However, the island itself is just a territory, with its own laws.

Personally I don't see that we have more than a modest responsibility for rebuilding, or bailing out their bankruptcy, or anything else involving the island or the island's government. Our responsibility is to the people themselves, and they are perfectly free to come stateside just as you and I are free to cross any state border.

I think the feds have the same moral obligation to Puerto Rico as they have to any state. I don't know if the law allows them to be treated differently - it probably does in some respects.

You could argue that the feds should treat Puerto Rico more generously, since they can't vote in national elections. This is because they don't have representatives in congress and can't vote for the president, so they are powerless citizens at the federal level. I think it isn't unreasonable to think you should treat the powerless with more generosity.