Why am I not suprised at this behavior?

Cindy Picos was dropped by her home insurer last month. The reason: aerial photos of her roof, which her insurer refused to let her see.

“I thought they had the wrong house,” said Picos, who lives in northern California. “Our roof is in fine shape.”

Her insurer said its images showed her roof had “lived its life expectancy.” Picos paid for an independent inspection that found the roof had another 10 years of life. Her insurer declined to reconsider its decision.

Across the U.S., insurance companies are using aerial images of homes as a tool to ditch properties seen as higher risk.

Nearly every building in the country is being photographed, often without the owner’s knowledge. Companies are deploying drones, manned airplanes and high-altitude balloons to take images of properties. No place is shielded: The industry-funded Geospatial Insurance Consortium has an airplane imagery program it says covers 99% of the U.S. population.


An insurer told Cindy Picos that her roof had lived its life expectancy.
The array of photos is being sorted by computer models to spy out underwriting no-nos, such as damaged roof shingles, yard debris, overhanging tree branches and undeclared swimming pools or trampolines. The red-flagged images are providing insurers with ammunition for nonrenewal notices nationwide.

“We’ve seen a dramatic increase across the country in reports from consumers who’ve been dropped by their insurers on the basis of an aerial image,” said Amy Bach, executive director of consumer group United Policyholders.

The increasingly sophisticated use of flyby photos comes as home insurers nationwide scramble to “derisk” their property portfolios, dropping less-than-perfect homes in an effort to recover from big underwriting losses.

Insurers say that customers agree to home inspections when they buy a policy and that photographing properties from the sky is less intrusive than the home visits used in the past. They say deploying fleets of surveillance planes lets them respond more quickly to disasters and charge rates that better reflect a property’s risk.

“If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, you should pay more than somebody with a brand new roof,” Allstate CEO Tom Wilson said in an interview. He also said that the insurance giant is far along in using digital images to improve underwriting and that “there’s even more to come.”

The industry’s enthusiastic embrace of digital surveillance is sounding alarm bells among consumer advocates. One concern: whether customers can easily challenge images that might be out of date or inaccurate.

Picos, who lives in Auburn, Calif., said it is “absolutely wrong” that she was dropped without being able to see the evidence that precipitated the decision.


Cindy Picos said that when her insurer informed her of a roof problem, she thought it had the wrong house.
A spokesman for her insurer, CSAA Insurance, said it has changed its policy to allow customers to see images on request. Plane and satellite images are reviewed by employees and enable accurate and efficient inspections, the spokesman said.

Others across California are getting nonrenewal notices as well. State Farm last month said it would cull some of its policies in the Golden State; it plans to drop coverage on around 30,000 residential and 42,000 commercial properties. It didn’t specify how it would decide which policies to drop. A spokesman said the financial health of its Californian homeowners operation continues to be affected by factors such as inflation and catastrophe exposure.

Several states restrict the reasons insurers can cite for not renewing home policies after a set time, typically one to five years. One of the few reasons allowed is a customer’s failure to meet underwriting requirements, such as maintaining a house’s roof.



Home inspections purporting to show such problems are making it easier for insurers to drop customers, despite the state protections, said Betsy Clement, a managing director for insurance brokerage Arthur J. Gallagher. She added that her firm has seen an unprecedented level of nonrenewals since the start of 2022.

The images facilitating nonrenewals aren’t always up to date or accurately interpreted by insurers, according to industry insiders and consumer advocates.

Nichole Brink quit her job as an agent for Farmers Insurance last year, concerned the insurance giant appeared to be using aerial images as a battering ram to clear out unwanted customers.

“It’s like they’re using anything as an excuse to get people off their books,” said Brink, who still works in the insurance industry. Farmers appeared to be scrutinizing every property on its books, she said, adding that she saw nonrenewal notices sent for everything from trampolines to moss on the side of a vacation home.



Brink, who worked for Farmers in Michigan, said some customers were dropped based on aerial images that were two or three years old. One person wasn’t renewed because of a roof, despite its being brand new. In another case, a part of the image that Farmers said showed tree limbs turned out to be just shadows, she said.

The final straw came when Brink saw her own home flagged in a Farmers image because of a tree branch overhanging her barn. She switched insurers and jobs.

A spokesman for Farmers said it regularly reviews the properties it insures. When a potential problem is flagged, customers have at least 60 days to correct any inaccuracies or show the issue has been addressed, he said.

Consumer groups say that the use of inspections to drive nonrenewals is worrisome because of the limited rights customers have to challenge the images or complain that the surveillance is an intrusion on their privacy.

“The technology is way ahead of any consumer protections,” said Douglas Heller, director of insurance at the Consumer Federation of America.

Many people would likely object to having their homes and yards watched from above if given a choice, Heller said, citing customers’ relatively slow uptake of discounts for letting auto insurers track their driving.

“Part of the industry strategy is to avoid any situation where consumers get to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to this kind of spyware approach to underwriting and rating,” Heller said.



Aerial images are expected to become increasingly detailed and frequent. If satellite launches go as planned, images could be updated daily by 2030, according to Neil Pearson, a consultant who works with imagery companies.

“It could get interesting from a privacy standpoint as…a property could be monitored daily at high resolution,” he said. “It is a bit Orwellian.”

linkhttps://www.wsj.com/real-estate/home-insurance-aerial-images-37a18b16?mod=hp_lead_pos3

I had my roof replaced last summer.

When I met the contractor to discuss it, he'd gotten to my house before I got home from work. He had quotes printed and a presentation ready... 15 minutes or so ahead of our appointment time.

I asked, "when did you get up there and measure and inspect?" He said, "we didn't have to. It's all done by imaging." He went on to explain that the shingle manufacturer evidently has some satellite technology in place to gather images good enough to inspect and measure from.

Fascinating? Yes. Spooky? A little. A substitute for getting into the attic and inspecting the underside? No.

You can go to out Tax Assessor's website and look at aerial maps and zoom in on each property . You can also switch to " Street View " .You can see who owns it and how much they paid for it . Nothing is private anymore .

This isn't new, I got a call from my agent a couple years ago after treating the roof for moss and had some white patches on it.
I had to take pictures and send it to him showing him it was just stains that will go away once the rain starts, they were going to cancel my policy over it.
I texted him this year and let him know I was about to treat it again and I wasn't blowing holes in my roof.

Do we really need 10,000 word articles to tell us this?

Insurance companies are in the business of profit. Get as much money as they can from you, find a way to cheat you out of services, drop you as soon as possible.

Any form of insurance is legalized gambling that is allowed by the state... You pays your premimuns expecting them to pay on claims and they are planning on paying the least amount that they can get you to accept... You are at their mercy................................ drill sgt.

I'd wager a large amount this is 100% outsourced 3rd party consultant work in High Value center (e.g. India) and only a few people in insurance company's headquarters had access prior to complaints from insurance agents started rolling in.

quote:

A spokesman for her insurer, CSAA Insurance, said it has changed its policy to allow customers to see images on request.

Translation - "changed its policy" really means that they finally got off their rear and worked out a deal with their contractor in India to provide a customer portal.

After Katrina the eye in the sky checked out the roofs. NASA does this as well. My brother in Illinois who is a firefighter had access and told me of the damage I sustained.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
After Katrina the eye in the sky checked out the roofs. NASA does this as well. My brother in Illinois who is a firefighter had access and told me of the damage I sustained.

The difference between now and 2005 is astounding. The satellites have better capability (resolution, measuring, different light spectrums, etc), but the biggest change is the automated algorithms that can be done on the images. For example, I've seen oil & gas algorithms comparing multiple years of satellite passes looking for settlement from an injection well.

The "silly" wants to believe that it's an effort to keep from paying out suspect claims and in turn raising customers premiums year after year.

But "suspicious" me thinks that the top 16 guys in the suits just want to keep getting their annual raises and bonuses.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Do we really need 10,000 word articles to tell us this?

Yep.

I had two houses roofed three years ago, both for our Daughters.

The guy did it from his office desk with software figuring the material list from what looked just like the regular google maps view. I would have had to pay extra for unseen defects in the decking or etc if required.

The insurance industry has been a racket since day one. Of course, they will use every tool to be sure the house always wins. Just like gambling, if the house can't win, they want out of the arrangement and fast.

We just went through this with our insurer. No problems at all, then suddenly we are advised that we are going to be dropped unless XYZ is done. Turned out they had used a drone to inspect our roof and concluded it was in poor shape. They then demanded that we replace our roof within thirty days. In February. In Ohio.

Our roofing guy was furious. Inspected it and certified that it didn’t need replaced. They wanted pictures and proof that we had a “roof refresh” done, (for $1200). Now they are demanding that we have our siding replaced. All in a span of weeks. I’ve instructed our agent to find another carrier, but that’s a giant hassle too.

quote:

Now they are demanding that we have our siding replaced

Did they pick out a color for you?

Inevitable really, when most of us renew or replace a HO policy, odds are it was done on telephone and the agent never did come out and inspect the home, which is part of the agents job and if it isn't done properly you have agents writing risks that exceed the companies limits, this isn't good for claims experience and risk which is how rates are set.

This has always been part of the process, its only different because now the adverse selection by bad agents, clients who don't disclose facts and actual condition are easily discovered. Over time, mitigating risks should reduce claims and temper the rate of increases.

Of course time changes things, Inflation, market pricing, natural events, that can't be controlled. As customers we want them to mitigate high risk damages, next to tort lawyers, it's claims that never should have been covered that run up the premiums, higher risk clients = higher claims experience = higher rates.

We have one member think it was KKina that had to cut down trees to maintain insurance in California, so the carrier probably did a google street search and some overhead area recon to determine that. 10 years ago the agent was doing that, or some hired inspectors doing drive by inspections.

Inspections have always been part of the property insurance program.

Down here you have to have a Wind Mitigation report done on any new application, it's not super expensive and they are good for several years, but it's an extensive report with pictures and a write up by an independent inspection company.

They will do a 5 years clam review, you have a big claim like a roof and even though you'd think a home with a new roof is a better risk it can stop you from getting written or, written into a subpar carrier.

I realize someone already beat me to the general sentiment, but this is closer to my feelings on the matter:

Real estate appraisers have been using geospatial data to help valuate commercial and residential property for decades. Sources include satellites, aircraft, and drones. Often, the data quality is good enough and recent enough to waive the requirement for a drive-by appraisal.

Recognizing Insurance Companies are a for profit business. I got to think this is them playing solid defense.

The roofing companies were trolling my last neighborhood HARD. I needed a roof inspection as part of selling the house. One of these shills were happy to come by, I could see it coming a mile away. Guy spends about 90 seconds positioning his ladder and glancing at the lower 3rd of my 18yr old roof. (That came with upgraded 30yr architectural shingles and I inspected myself the prior year while cleaning and installing gutter guards...

Later that day, their office call. Shocker; they recommend an entire roof replacement and most of the gutters. How much? Basically as much as they can get out of my insurance company plus my deductible.

(Post Edit: House sold, 3hr+ home inspection to include camera on a pole found no defects, just noted roof was in its last 3rd of expected life).