quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Angelo lost his life doing what he loved the most

Here is the inevitable line I was looking for...

Well, right up to the last few seconds anyway

[

And ended as a lawn dart. [/QUOTE]


More like a jelly filled balloon I would say.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The man was no haphazard, careless "daredevil." He was an educated professional who worked very hard to advance not only the sport, but to educate others, and to contribute on many levels to aeronautics and aviation.

His contributions to aeronautics and aviation are not in question. His credentials were impeccable. Thus my really smart observation. Sadly, those contributions won't be happening any longer. He actually did educate others very well about the perils of this "sport". I'm sure his fellow pilots have learned or will learn at least one thing not to do.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
How many jumps have you got, that entitles you to make such an enlightened statement?

Due to my high level of enlightenment I have exactly zero jumps in a wing suit. ZERO. It's not hard to figure out that there is almost zero margin of error in this "sport" and crossing into that narrow margin will often result in death or serious injury. From my enlightened viewpoint it seems like a very high price to pay for a mistake. He had a friend (Rob Haggarty) die last year "flying" so he knew this was a high risk endeavor. Read Item #4. Seems like a small mistake killed Mr. Haggarty. Thus my not so smart observation.

Mr Grubisic fucked with the bull one to many times and he got the horn.

You'd think a rocket scientist would at least strap one on as a back up.

I agree with Bytes' enlightenment status for wing suit flying:

Nope. And hell nope. With a double side order of nope, smothered in nope sauce.

H&K-Guy

It's not the fall that kills you. . .

. . .it's the sudden stop.

I wonder why no one ever wants to die doing something they hate.
It would seem to be more satisfying to see it coming and think, “All right! Enough of this shit; don’t have to do it any more.” Doing what we love? “Dam’; never again: So sad.”

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:


Mr Grubisic fucked with the bull one to many times and he got the horn.

Base jumping and wingsuiting is not fucking with a bull. It's a legitimate activity.

An acquaintance is over 70 and an active basejumper. He's an aerial firefighter, retired cop, and is of the opinion that life is far too short to hide in a corner, afraid of doing what you love.

It's possible to do everything right and still experience an equipment failure or condition that is injurious or fatal, but this is true of many endeavors. Doing these activities, regardless of whether in the air or on the ground or under the ocean, is not indicative of stupidity; neither is injury or death while doing these activities or as a consequence of them.

An acquaintance did freefall descents from exceptionally high altitudes, and came close to losing his life in the process. The results of those experimental jumps have saved lives as well as contributed immeasurably to the understanding and science of high altitude physiology, inflight emergency egress systems, and other critical facets of aviation. He is still alive, and 90 years old, and no longer jumps, but nobody looks at his efforts and experience as anything but heroic, nor would they, had he died in the process.

You might think that your inexperience in that arena makes you more enlightened or a better man, perhaps even a bit smarter than the other guy. That kind of chutzpah, especially when making fun of the dead, is offensive. That you choose not to engage yourself is fine; nobody criticizes you or makes fun of you for that choice. It would be better if it went both ways.

If you brought him back from the dead, do you think he'd take that flight again? He's going to miss half of his life, probably more than half. Decades, man. He gave away decades of existence. Do you think that if he was granted a second chance, he'd go bouncing off the fucking ground again?

You know the answer and so does everyone else, but you can continue being indignant about the opinions of others of you wish.

And, yes, base jumping and this wingsuit shit is suicidal behavior, and the laws of physics have a tendency to grant the wishes of these loons. It's only a matter of when. Every few months we hear of some whacky guy in a half-assed Superman outfit spreading their internal organs across an acre or two. At least the birds are happy about it, I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Base jumping and wingsuiting is not fucking with a bull. It's a legitimate activity.

Sorry, but he was fucking with a bull and he did get the horn. (Fucking with a bull is a term that I learned growing up in a rural area and it does apply to Mr Grubisic, you can only do it so long) That is born out by the fact that he isn't doing any research today. One to many flights IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
An acquaintance is over 70 and an active basejumper. He's an aerial firefighter, retired cop, and is of the opinion that life is far too short to hide in a corner, afraid of doing what you love.

Good for him. I'm sure he's at one of the edges of the bell curve. Myself? I'll try my best to support my wife, kids, and grand kids. You? Go do a wing suit flight, tame wild tigers, milk cobras, whatever. Go nuts.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
You might think that your inexperience in that arena makes you more enlightened or a better man, perhaps even a bit smarter than the other guy. That kind of chutzpah, especially when making fun of the dead, is offensive. That you choose not to engage yourself is fine; nobody criticizes you or makes fun of you for that choice. It would be better if it went both ways.

You're the one that brought up enlightenment, not me. You were actually throwing shit my way. I just happen to have the OPINION that Mr Grubisic was doing something that was really stupid. He didn't learn shit from his friend turning into a splat on a rock due to one small mistake. His buddy didn't have an equipment failure FYI. He hit his ankle on a rock causing him to lose control. He didn't jump far enough out. Oh, his dead buddy was a "conservative flyer". You can idolize Mr Grubisic all you want, I don't care. He was brilliant in the engineering arena, but no more. I wonder why, brilliance?

You must be offended at this entire thread. I'm seeing you as the only one being offended by an adrenaline junkie getting what he knew was coming. That whole "fucking with the bull" thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The man was no haphazard, careless "daredevil." He was an educated professional who worked very hard to advance not only the sport, but to educate others, and to contribute on many levels to aeronautics and aviation.

His contributions to aeronautics and aviation are not in question. His credentials were impeccable. Thus my really smart observation. Sadly, those contributions won't be happening any longer. He actually did educate others very well about the perils of this "sport". I'm sure his fellow pilots have learned or will learn at least one thing not to do.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
How many jumps have you got, that entitles you to make such an enlightened statement?

Due to my high level of enlightenment I have exactly zero jumps in a wing suit. ZERO. It's not hard to figure out that there is almost zero margin of error in this "sport" and crossing into that narrow margin will often result in death or serious injury. From my enlightened viewpoint it seems like a very high price to pay for a mistake. He had a friend (Rob Haggarty) die last year "flying" so he knew this was a high risk endeavor. Read Item #4. Seems like a small mistake killed Mr. Haggarty. Thus my not so smart observation.

Mr Grubisic fucked with the bull one to many times and he got the horn.

^
This, in spades.

Wingsuit flying is not just a dangerous sport - it is, as we've seen on this forum countless times, usually fatal, no matter how much the person 'loves what he's doing'.

At some time, Mother Earth is going to give you an inevitably fatal smacking.

Who knows what beneficial scientific advances may have been made by this new 'blot on the landscape'?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
An acquaintance is over 70 and an active basejumper. He's an aerial firefighter, retired cop, and is of the opinion that life is far too short to hide in a corner, afraid of doing what you love.

Some people restore cars, do volunteer work, watch birds, etc., these men and women are hiding in a corner, afraid, because the activities they love to do aren't dangerous or borderline suicidal? Individuals who think like that have an overabundance of the arrogance of their own opinion.

The one thing we truly own is our life, and unless it endangers or severely inconveniences someone else, we have a right to end it whenever and however we wish. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest when someone kills himself in such a manner.

What is distressing, though, is to see continual examples of diseased thinking in discussions like this. In this case it’s the false dichotomy logical fallacy of claiming that we have only two choices in life: either doing something that is so dangerous that a tiny mistake can kill us instantly or doing something like spending our lives hiding in a corner drinking beer and watching daytime teevee.

If someone has the resources and ability to engage in base jumping or wing suiting, he also has the option of countless other fulfilling, meaningful endeavors. If we want to admit that we are adrenaline junkies and nothing else does it for us, fine; we have that choice. But to say that we have only two options, risking our lives doing things that benefit no one or “hiding” from life, is either stunningly ignorant—or dishonest.

I don’t begrudge a dude pushing the limits. Some people are wired that way.

Chuck Yeager did something pretty stupid according to the rules applied to him. We call him a hero.

I did some really crazy stuff on a dirt bike and almost got decapitated when I was younger but I had to push the limit to see where it was. A lot of America was built this way. At least he wasn’t being a Ralph Nader type.

I see a pretty significant difference between the advancement Yeager involved himself in and that of Mr. Grubisic.

The usefulness to mankind of mastery of flying past the speed of sound, vs. advancing a dangerous hobby pursued a few dozen people. Extreme risk for minimal reward. I guess I should not put value on someone else’s life... he knew the value intimately.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
If we want to admit that we are adrenaline junkies and nothing else does it for us, fine; we have that choice. But to say that we have only two options, risking our lives doing things that benefit no one or “hiding” from life, is either stunningly ignorant—or dishonest.

Everything we do must benefit someone else?

Nobody benefits from my shooting steel. Or reloading. Just me. I do it anyway. We all have things we do for us.

I never once exited an aircraft in flight in the hopes of an adrenaline rush. In fact, I'm terrified of heights. I always have been.

I always found jumping to be the best therapy I could find. It's not terrifying: it's relaxing. I don't land after a jump, shaking, filled with adrenaline, anxious to go for another thrill. Freefall is similar to swimming in water that you can breathe. Loud water.

With the exception of having awakened in intensive care, I don't recall a jump in my life, and I've been jumping since high school, that I didn't reflect on and think "I needed that," or that didn't leave me feeling better. It's not a thrill, and it's not adrenaline, and it's not adventure. It's enjoyable, sometimes challenging, but I've had more jumps simply "catching air" to get out and enjoy the jump, than anything else. Others have their focus. Sometimes it's been work, sometimes play. Sometimes recreation, sometimes spiritual.

A fatality is not an inevitable end to a skydive, base jump, or wingsuit jump. Not by a long shot. It does happen, but the same is true of motorcycle riding, scuba diving, and thousands of other activities.

Nobody, least of all me, has suggested that there are only two options in life. There are endless options. Jumping is one of them. There does seem to be a common sentiment among those who have never jumped, however, that anyone who is injured or killed as the result of a base jump, freefall, parachute, or wingsuit incident, got what they deserved, or met an inevitable end, and it's absolutely untrue, and a very ignorant view point.

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex 64:

The usefulness to mankind of mastery of flying past the speed of sound, vs. advancing a dangerous hobby pursued a few dozen people. Extreme risk for minimal reward. I guess I should not put value on someone else’s life... he knew the value intimately.

Hundreds of thousands of people, actually. Including the late President George Bush who celebrated his 90th with a tandem jump.

Parachuting is as legitimate an aeronautical activity as any other.

All of the advances in rescue and military parachuting have come from civil avenues, whether it's Bill Booth's invention of the three ring release and the tandem rig or many of the innovations that have resulted in the ability to land a space craft or probe on another planet.

I hold five different FAA airman certificates, and I have been flying most of my life. I learned more about aerodynamics from flying my own body in freefall than I ever learned in a simulator or classroom. It has benefit, even if it's not immediately apparent to those who don't jump.

There are light airplanes today that use rocket assisted ballistic parachutes that deploy and lower the aircraft to the ground. These were not developed in a vacuum.

I have flown aircraft that used parachutes for deceleration on landing; the parachutes themselves, and the means to pack and deploy them were developments of parachutists to tested them in freefall. Same for the technology to return space capsules to earth, apply drogues and personnel parachutes to ejection seats, and to put troops out of the back of an airplane, or smoke jumpers on a forest fire. I've been involved in all of that, and it all ties very closely to it's origins, in civil parachuting.

Parachutes enable inserting doctors, bomb dogs, emergency supplies, food, ammunition, personnel, probes, and other items into places where there are no runways. They enable inflight egress from aircraft. They are part of sport, training, fun, as well as numerous working applications, and people such as Grubisic are as integral a part as any in achieving these ends. Everyone participates, everyone contributes. Even those who are killed leave a contribution and lessons paid for in blood.

I mentioned a 90 year old who made lasting contributions to the industry (and not just in parachuting); he's not presently jumping, and probably won't jump again. I last saw him two years ago, when he visited during some inductions in the parachuting hall of fame. Like many, he's evidence that a violent, fatal end is not the inevitable outcome of a life of parachuting, though like many endeavors, it is always a possibility.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I mentioned a 90 year old who made lasting contributions to the industry (and not just in parachuting); he's not presently jumping, and probably won't jump again. I last saw him two years ago, when he visited during some inductions in the parachuting hall of fame. Like many, he's evidence that a violent, fatal end is not the inevitable outcome of a life of parachuting, though like many endeavors, it is always a possibility.

Actually in your first post he was 70 years old. Maybe I'm a slightly off base but could you tell us what advancements he made? Do you really think that he would have made it to 70~90 were he wing suit "flying"?

Russian roulette in a suit. You will lose the longer you play.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:Base jumping and wingsuiting is not fucking with a bull. It's a legitimate activity.

In truth it's on a par with picking up a parachute pack that may or may not have been packed by a parachute packer or a trombonist.

And 'A fatality is not an inevitable end to a skydive, base jump, or wingsuit jump. Not by a long shot. It does happen, but the same is true of motorcycle riding, scuba diving, and thousands of other dangerous and ultimately life-threatening activities.'

You'll note the inclusion of a few words that you omitted to mention.

There is a stark difference between jumping from an aircraft and BASE jumping - regardless if it is parachuting or wingsuiting

Personally I give zero-fucks if people want to BASE jump become stains on the terrain.

Their egos are writing checks their bodies can't cash.