Of course she is offering a 5 year guarantee of you use her food....this guarantees her 5 years of residual income off of you and let's face it (an my condolences on the loss of your last dog) the chances the dog will get significantly ill in its first five years is not that high and even if it did I would be willing to bet she is making enough to cover it especially if you do the math on a whole litter.

The only reason I might look elsewhere is if you ignore her request she will know because she wont get her money from it and do you really want her harping on you down the road?

quote:

Just to run this into the ground, do either of you want share if you believe that the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act is applicable here?

Imagine it would have to be determined that breeders of animals selling them with a written warranty is in fact a covered manufacturer.
I doubt you want to be the first guy to challenge it and pay the cost just to know...

I put it out there since it's a warranty issue, it's actually quite interesting read.. LOL

Unless the contract reads that you HAVE to buy food from her or she won't sell you the dog, or that she has the option to recover the dog from you if you don't spay/neuter or feed it her food, who cares, if you like the dog and her, and other than the stipulations she's offered get the dog..

Iv'e bought several dogs, never had a breeder call me about it ever, then again none tried to sell me food contracts either..

.

I've never had a puppy die within the first five years of life.

If you're concerned, buy a bag of their food (even if you don't use it) and if the puppy seems off in the first few weeks ~ then return it if you think it will have on going medical problems.

'

Our new pup has been noshing on carcass and shit. Lots of both. Last weekend I noted that she hit an Elk shit pile, then a deer shit pile, then a bird carcass (looked to have been killed and eaten by a Peregrine as only the back and wings were left) all within a 50 foot distance on a walk. I've all but given up caring and just let her finish her business. Life's Abundance Dog food actually sounds great in comparison.

If the only repercussion is "voiding the warranty" and not her taking the dog back, and you don't care about the "warranty", then just void it and be happy with your new pup.

Rhe Wiki article on the Act reveals:

quote:

The Magnuson–Moss Act contains many definitions:

A "consumer" is a buyer of consumer goods for personal use. A buyer of consumer products for resale is not a consumer.[2]
A "supplier" is any person engaged in the business of making a consumer product directly or indirectly available to consumers.[3]
A "warrantor" is any supplier or other person who gives or offers a written warranty or who has some obligation under an implied warranty.[4]
A "consumer product" is generally any tangible personal property for sale and that is normally used for personal, family, or household purposes. It is important to note that the determination whether a good is a consumer product requires a factual finding, on a case-by-case basis. Najran Co. for General Contracting and Trading v. Fleetwood Enterprises, Inc., 659 F. Supp. 1081 (S.D. Ga. 1986).
A "written warranty" (also called an express warranty) is any written promise made in connection with the sale of a consumer product by a supplier to a consumer that relates to the material and/or workmanship and that affirms that the product is defect-free or will meet a certain standard of performance over a specified time.

It also claims

quote:

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[7] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions,[8] and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.

No telling how this applies, if at all, to dogs and dog food.

quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:
I've never had a puppy die within the first five years of life.

We have. Twice. Jesse Mastiff and Odin Rottweiler were both taken by cancer before their fifth birthday.

quote:

Does the contract also give them rights to inspect the living quarters, restrict breeding, take the dog back if they choose, etc.?

Almost universal for the top breeders. My wife worked at the top Akita kennel a few years back. No one was permitted to purchase one of his dogs unless he met with and approved them. Only the puppy mills don't care where their dogs go.

I was only exempted from the home visit when we took in the rescue Akita a few years back. that was only because my wife's boss and the kennel owner was such a huge financial supporter of the group and on the board plus vouching for us. But we were subjected to the other areas of the contract they required.

As far as food, the kennel would recommend a fond but not demand it. This kennel rarely sold a dog so they had no need to make such a demand. the owner was not in it for the money.

I would rather get a recommendation from my vet.
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quote:

Originally posted by Chance:...they are both multi-level marketing schemes. ...

I would have absolutely zero business dealings for any reason with anyone involved in multi-level marketing stuff.

Find another breeder. Sorry you like the pup. Beware.

I read many documents on a daily basis. My head hurts from reading all of this.

I understand having a healthy puppy is important to you. This sounds more like something the car dealership would offer you. Too many strings attached to that agreement, and it does not pass the smell test. It sounds very manipulative.

I am pretty quiet on the forum; I don't like to rock the boat. I have researched dog food for over 35 years. That food the breeder wants you to feed is less than optimal. The supplements are fine; I see no harm, but if the food is "all that great" why the supplements?

Meal; Turkey, chicken whatever. No thanks. My dogs and cats don't eat food that starts with meal. Any ingredient should be able to be verified back to the source.

Every pet is different; I rescued a dog that is allergic to grains and starches. Tapioca, potato starches and eggs. So what does she eat? Fish.

Our cats eat a dry fish, beef or duck food. The wet food is shredded chicken with a occasional salmon. The chicken looks better than most canned chicken that you buy for human consumption.

No, I wouldn't give two hoots about the breeder's demands. If they really care about the dog, they should be feeding another brand of food. I am guessing that the $$$ is the real issue here. $$$ for the breeder that is. If the breeder balks at you feeding a superior product, then the breeder is only worried about the residual $ from the sale of the food.

Marketing is all hype in food. The major pet food brands spend millions of dollars on advertising. The real quality foods don't have tv ads or professional paid spokesmen.

Do your research. Search for truth about pet foods.

There are good meals and bad. You just have to do the research.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com...ood/about-meat-meal/

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Or better, go to the local shelter and find a puppy.

^^^This is the best advice in the entire thread.

There are probably thousands of breeders who have deals with brand X to provide them free or discounted food for their kennels. Food is one of their major overhead items, so anything they can do to shave costs is considered. Heck, we have breeders call and come in all the time, asking for our clinic stationary and vaccination pamphlets but declining to get their litters of pups vaccinated by us. They just want it to look like they did....

Have you called the breeder and confronted her about the requirements directly? When my daughter was reading over a breeder contract with her dog, I called and directly spoke to the breeder, and was able to come to an agreeable resolution. Nobody wants to gain a reputation for double dealing, including breeders of dogs.

You should call and tell her you want the dog but will move on to another breeder if she's dead set on making you buy a food that gives money back to the breeder, and then see how she responds.

quote:

Originally posted by Chance:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
There is a federal law on warranty from sellers to end users regarding how they can work.

Magnusson Moss Warranty Act

With Magnusson Moss, if a manufacturer requires you to use their parts to
maintain the warranty they are required by law to provide those parts for free.

How it would work for a breeder requiring a specific food would be for a court to decide, it is a warranty, I might just be that her "warranty" requirements under federal law would force her to give you that food at no charge.

For example cars, GM can give you a warranty that is voided if you don't adhere to the scheduled maintenance. They can tell you that to maintain the warranty you must change the oil every 5000 miles, and you must use 0W-30 weight oil.

GM cannot tell you that you must do all that and only have it serviced at a GM dealer, and, buy GM oil and filters. If they do they are required to give you the oil and filters for free. Same applies for vacuum cleaners, fans, furnaces, whatever, if the seller requires you to use their specific goods to maintain the warranty, they have to give it for free.

Buy the dog, get a lawyer, have them send her a letter demanding the free food and supplements for 5 years as she requires the specific items and give her an address to ship to...

However I did sleep at home last night so....

Fascinating.

That is great to know regardless.

Surely Lifes Abundance can be bought from other breeders. Not just this one. So not exactly applicable.

Again, thanks to every one that chimed in. One interesting thing to me is in that she has a bunch of repeat business. I think she breeds good dogs.

I am going to give her a call and discuss this with her but, at the end of the day, I think this deal for her just basically funds her guarantee. So she is out nothing if you make a claim, and if not, gravy for her.

I am just going to tell her we do our own food - which is true - my wife makes our dog food for our other dogs. So we will go with our own food and just take the guarantee off the table.

We will see if that is a problem. I honestly don't think it will be. But we shall see.

I'm curious why a breeder is requiring you to spay the dog? Do you get a price reduction for doing so?
Personally, there are numerous flags in this post that would make me stay away. Given your history with dogs, I'd look into a rescue for the particular breed, or go to a shelter and find the right match... but this "breeder" just doesn't sound right to me.

quote:

I'm curious why a breeder is requiring you to spay the dog? Do you get a price reduction for doing so?

IMO serious breeders usually require this to keep you from using the dog to compete with their bloodlines. Serious breeders also breed out heath problems when they can. In my limited experience, Rescue & Puppy Mill dogs have the most health problems. I agree that it seems she is a very good breeder.

Chance, very sorry to hear about losing your Australian Shepherd. We have a female tri-color Aussie that just turned 5 years old last month- (she's the one that I mentioned in another thread about the ACL injury on rear leg and surgery).

I mention her because her breeder also had a stipulation on the purchase contract that they had to approve of the buyer and that we had to spay her after purchase.

I agree strongly with some of the other SF members in that I don't particularly care for restrictive contracts when I'm paying full price for something/anything.
Grrr...

In our case my wife was doing the research on Australian Shepherd breeders and I didn't find out about the spaying piece until the end.
(Wife had never had a dog as a kid and didn't understand exactly what the "spay" requirement meant in the big scheme of things). I.E. no puppies...

I understand why dog breeders would want to have some say in who buys their pups (herding dogs are wired differently) but I would never have paid full price for a female with a spaying requirement.

But my wife and kids wanted their first dog and so I shut up and let it happen. She's been probably the smartest dog I have owned, (although for a while there I was really wondering if we shouldn't have gotten a dumber breed, if you know what I mean-).



BTW, due to her ACL tear and subsequent surgery/recovery we rotated through various dog foods and found that Fromm's reduced calorie food, Gold Coast weight management variety worked best with our Aussie.

Good luck with a new pup!

It looks like the contract says if you don't use their food, the warranty is void.

So, if that's the sole provision re:food, then you can follow the contract by not using their food and not claiming warranty coverage.

There may be some financial angle to 'requiring' the food in the contract - maybe they themselves negotiated a discount with the maker for their own purchases by agreeing to try to push the food in their contract?

Anyway, if you don't need the warranty, you shouldn't be locked into the food. If you know up front you won't be using the food and thus not be eligible for the warranty, you may want to see if you could get a discount for buying a non-warranted pup.