A couple of months ago we lost our beloved Australian Shepard to lymphatic cancer. It was heartbreaking. She was the best dog I have ever owned and she was only 5. I started looking for a new breeder as the person we purchased Kira from had health problems and got out of the business.

I contacted a number of breeders and found someone with a litter coming up. She has been in the business for 15 years. She has produced some really nice dogs. So all was good.

She has a chaotic web site and things are hard to keep track of. There were a couple of "requirements" but they weren't terribly clear and when I asked she said it all be laid out in the purchase agreement.


I went and met the pup last weekend and she looks great. Really exactly what I am looking for. The sire and the dam are great dogs. All is good. I talked to the breeder about food and she was gushing about the food she uses, went on and on about how great it is. How she went out the company to evaluate the product. Yada, yada, yada.

Then I got the purchase agreement/contract.

She offers a 5 year health guarantee. But, as part of the contract, you must feed a particular food: Life's Abundance, and give a supplement daily - produced by a company called NuVet.

That kind of irked me as even if the company produces great food now who says it won't be bought up, or raise prices or whatever. And I don't respond well to people telling me what I can and can't feed my dog.

You also have to order the food through the breeders website so she can "track" that you are following through with the agreement. The food is not available in stores.

And the food and supplements are pricey.

So I started to try to find out more about the the products and found out that they are both owned by the same company and that they are both multi-level marketing schemes. The breeder gets a cut of up to 50% of purchase price. Nice commission!

I have thought a lot about this and I am going to go ahead and get the dog. I am going to violate that portion of the contract and feed what I want. The guarantee isn't that important to me. And, the supplements are so expensive that I would have paid 3/4 of the purchase price over the 5 years. I really like the dog and I am just not going to worry about it. As I read the contract it is pretty clear that the specific food requirement only applies to the 5 year health guarantee.

But it still does bugs me. This is unethical behavior to me and I hate to reward that. On the other hand, in talking with the breeder I think she honestly believes these products are fantastic. I think she has drank the Kool-Aid so to speak. I don't think that she gets that this is wrong.

In researching the products they are rated highly by independent sources. So it seems like this is sort of a Mary Kay cosmetics thing. A relatively good product. But I just don't like that she makes the guarantee contingent on buying the food through here. And that she doesn't disclose that she has a vested interest.

Ok that was probably too much lead up to my actual question.

I got to wondering about the legality of making a guarantee about health contingent on feeding a certain food. I could see setting requirements for what the nature of the food should be. I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but in my uneducated view I would think if this went to court the breeder what have to demonstrate some justification for requiring this particular food. And I would think the fact that she was getting a kickback for the food would undermine her case.

But what do I know, which is why I am asking.

If a purchaser started to feed a different food, and the dog died before the age of 5, and the breeder said the guarantee was voided by purchaser feeding different food, and the purchaser sued: who would prevail?

Just to be clear I have never sued anyone and don't plan to know. I just got curious about it after I learned all the facts.

In my googling I found that there are a number of breeders out there doing the same thing. And there is the suggestion that the parent company of two products is actually encouraging breeders engage in this behavior.

There is a federal law on warranty from sellers to end users regarding how they can work.

Magnusson Moss Warranty Act

With Magnusson Moss, if a manufacturer requires you to use their parts to
maintain the warranty they are required by law to provide those parts for free.

How it would work for a breeder requiring a specific food would be for a court to decide, it is a warranty, she is a manufacturer of sorts and she is providing a warranty.

I might just be that her "warranty" requirements under federal law would force her to give you that food at no charge.

For example cars, GM can give you a warranty that is voided if you don't adhere to the scheduled maintenance. They can tell you that to maintain the warranty you must change the oil every 5000 miles, and you must use 0W-30 weight oil.

GM cannot tell you that you must do all that and only have it serviced at a GM dealer, and, buy GM oil and filters. If they do they are required to give you the oil and filters for free. Same applies for vacuum cleaners, fans, furnaces, whatever, if the seller requires you to use their specific goods to maintain the warranty, they have to give it for free.

Buy the dog, get a lawyer, have them send her a letter demanding the free food and supplements for 5 years as she requires the specific items and give her an address to ship to...

However I did sleep at home last night so....

I'd do the same thing, seems like a strong arm move so she can continue to make money from you. Most breeders negotiate deals with dog food companies to get food at a discount.

That said you can be happy she has been feeding Life's Abundance as it is an excellent quality food. Most breeders gravitate towards Purina One with is not an excellent food.

Good luck with the new pup, looking forward to pictures!

Edited to add, I missed the multi-level marking aspect. That is inexcusable IMO and would give me second thoughts about the breeder.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jeff Yarchin,

If you dont give two shits about the guarantee then who cares. Feed what ever you want knowing that you cannot try to make any future claim.

A court will interpret the entire agreement to decide what the meaning of various provisions is.

The seller can offer a product on nearly any terms it likes. If this isn't what you like, move on.

There are lots of dogs out there.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
There is a federal law on warranty from sellers to end users regarding how they can work.

Magnusson Moss Warranty Act

With Magnusson Moss, if a manufacturer requires you to use their parts to
maintain the warranty they are required by law to provide those parts for free.

How it would work for a breeder requiring a specific food would be for a court to decide, it is a warranty, I might just be that her "warranty" requirements under federal law would force her to give you that food at no charge.

For example cars, GM can give you a warranty that is voided if you don't adhere to the scheduled maintenance. They can tell you that to maintain the warranty you must change the oil every 5000 miles, and you must use 0W-30 weight oil.

GM cannot tell you that you must do all that and only have it serviced at a GM dealer, and, buy GM oil and filters. If they do they are required to give you the oil and filters for free. Same applies for vacuum cleaners, fans, furnaces, whatever, if the seller requires you to use their specific goods to maintain the warranty, they have to give it for free.

Buy the dog, get a lawyer, have them send her a letter demanding the free food and supplements for 5 years as she requires the specific items and give her an address to ship to...

However I did sleep at home last night so....

Fascinating.

That is great to know regardless.

A 5-year health guarantee is pretty impressive, IMO. I've never heard of anybody making such a claim. I can see how the breeder, once they offer such a guarantee, would want some proof that the owner is actually feeding the dog a good quality food. I mean, you can't make a long-term guarantee if the owner is feeding the dog garbage food.

Now, it does sound like she's in it purely for the money, as she makes a good deal of profit from buyers only purchasing 'her' food. I would take the dog, feed it whatever the heck you want, and forget about the guarantee.

quote:

Fascinating.

That is great to know regardless.

This was a subject of great interest on HD forums for many years, HD dealers (and I'm sure many other manufacturers) in an effort to get people into service departments had sales and service people telling customers that to maintain the HD factory warranty you had to use HD parts at a HD dealer.

And it worked, countless people would tell you they only had their bikes serviced at the dealer vs doing at home or independent shops because they did not want to lose the warranty.

Suffice it to say a few attorneys buying HD bikes contacted HD Corporate, which I'm sure knew this was going on but ignored it, and who finally had to let dealers know it needed to stop.

Technically HD never required it so HD wasn't violating the act, but the dealers were misleading buyers.

Interesting that this involves a requirement to feed Life's Abundance. Let me tell you our story.

Last July ('16) we purchased a black lab puppy from a well established breeder. The breeder, while not making it a requirement in the purchase agreement, pushed Life's Abundance to us pretty hard. Supposedly, this is an "all age" food formula (vs. puppy/adult dog food blends), and also the food that the breeder had been feeding our puppy from the time it was weened. The puppy looked great, so we bought a bag of the Life's Abundance from the breeder to take home with us (yes - expensive).

Net-net, from the time we got the dog home and continued feeding this dog food, our puppy had terrible diarrhea. Two trips to the vet in the first two weeks we had our guy, wormed after both trips, and we STILL couldn't get the diarrhea under control. Switched foods and the diarrhea cleared up quickly.

Soooo... I share this to put a spotlight on what must be an incredibly lucrative breeder purchase or referral program. After our experience, we're pretty convinced that our breeder WAS NOT feeding our puppy Life's Abundance, and that they were shilling it for their own financial benefit.

Good luck. BTW, we're having great success with Blue Buffalo feeds.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
A court will interpret the entire agreement to decide what the meaning of various provisions is.

The seller can offer a product on nearly any terms it likes. If this isn't what you like, move on.

There are lots of dogs out there.

This is a private contract between you and her. She can offer any warranty she likes, and attach any conditions she likes. It isn't unethical. She doesn't owe you a fiduciary duty in a simple purchase transaction. She can build in the self-dealing if she likes. That is well within contract law. It is simply business. Your best choice is to simply not buy this dog.

The hidden self-dealing is unsavory, but not actionable. It is within the law.

If the only recourse she has should you breach the terms of the deal is that you don't get the health warranty, then you may choose to breach the terms of the deal and give up the warranty. It is a strategic breach, as the cost (loss of the warranty) isn't worth the cost of performance by you.

But if she can repossess the dog (although I don't think that is possible), your breach could expose you to that, and she would be within the terms of the contract.

I would just look for another dog.

Find another breeder!

She offers a warranty and if you ever want to use that warranty, you should maintain the terms of the contract.

However, I've never had a warranty on a pet and I don't expect that I'll ever want one or need one so I would also violate that portion and feed what I want.

Does the contract also give them rights to inspect the living quarters, restrict breeding, take the dog back if they choose, etc.?

I've been amazed at some of the contracts friends have signed for a "pet". They aren't purchases, they are leases with unilateral control by the breeders.

Find another breeder.

Consider how using the warranty would actually play out: four years from now, your furry family member -- who you love and adore -- has some sort of malady. You do... what, exactly? Return him for a refund/replacement, like a broken hair dryer?

I've never found the warranties offered by breeders to be anything other than nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
A court will interpret the entire agreement to decide what the meaning of various provisions is.

The seller can offer a product on nearly any terms it likes. If this isn't what you like, move on.

There are lots of dogs out there.

This is a private contract between you and her. She can offer any warranty she likes, and attach any conditions she likes. It isn't unethical. She doesn't owe you a fiduciary duty in a simple purchase transaction. She can build in the self-dealing if she likes. That is well within contract law. It is simply business. Your best choice is to simply not buy this dog.

The hidden self-dealing is unsavory, but not actionable. It is within the law.

If the only recourse she has should you breach the terms of the deal is that you don't get the health warranty, then you may choose to breach the terms of the deal and give up the warranty. It is a strategic breach, as the cost (loss of the warranty) isn't worth the cost of performance by you.

But if she can repossess the dog (although I don't think that is possible), your breach could expose you to that, and she would be within the terms of the contract.

I would just look for another dog.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. I am not a lawyer but I have read through the contract a bunch of times. The 5 year guarantee is a distinct section of the contract and all references to the required feeding refer specifically to that section. There are other sections that cover things like requiring the dog be spayed.

Just to run this into the ground, do either of you want share if you believe that the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act is applicable here?

quote:

Does the contract also give them rights to inspect the living quarters, restrict breeding, take the dog back if they choose, etc.?

I've been amazed at some of the contracts friends have signed for a "pet". They aren't purchases, they are leases with unilateral control by the breeders.

No the only two real requirments are the feeding/supplements and agreeing to spay the dog (she is female)

quote:

Interesting that this involves a requirement to feed Life's Abundance. Let me tell you our story.

Last July ('16) we purchased a black lab puppy from a well established breeder. The breeder, while not making it a requirement in the purchase agreement, pushed Life's Abundance to us pretty hard. Supposedly, this is an "all age" food formula (vs. puppy/adult dog food blends), and also the food that the breeder had been feeding our puppy from the time it was weened. The puppy looked great, so we bought a bag of the Life's Abundance from the breeder to take home with us (yes - expensive).

Net-net, from the time we got the dog home and continued feeding this dog food, our puppy had terrible diarrhea. Two trips to the vet in the first two weeks we had our guy, wormed after both trips, and we STILL couldn't get the diarrhea under control. Switched foods and the diarrhea cleared up quickly.

Soooo... I share this to put a spotlight on what must be an incredibly lucrative breeder purchase or referral program. After our experience, we're pretty convinced that our breeder WAS NOT feeding our puppy Life's Abundance, and that they were shilling it for their own financial benefit.

Good luck. BTW, we're having great success with Blue Buffalo feeds.

Thanks for sharing the story. That doesn't sound like a good experience.

Three viable options...

One, sign the contract, purchase the dog, and abide by the contract requirements.
Two, sign the contract, purchase the dog, and ignore the contract requirements whereby voiding the warranty.
Three, find another breeder. This would be my choice.

No one, and I mean no one, tells me how to feed or care for my dogs, other than maybe my vet when they're under the weather. This is nothing but a money making scam by the breeder. And I can just imagine the worming her way out of that 'warranty' she'd pull if anything did happen with the dog, regardless your adherence to her requirements.

quote:

Originally posted by Chance:

Just to run this into the ground, do either of you want share if you believe that the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act is applicable here?

No, I don't know. Read it, I bet it is a scintillating and fascinating statute!

The main idea of the statute is to make warranties clear and simple and to eliminate tricksy language and impossible to fulfill conditions. I don't know that it would require her to give you the food if it is a required condition. Maybe it does, but that sounds a little off to me.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
This is nothing but a money making scam by the breeder. And I can just imagine the worming her way out of that 'warranty' she'd pull if anything did happen with the dog, regardless your adherence to her requirements.

^^^^
This.

The more people that put up with this kind of seller, the more you will see it pop up in the marketplace. Personally, I don't care for this sort of string attachment. I'd walk too.

Vote with your feet.

Find another breeder. Or better, go to the local shelter and find a puppy.