Not like we didn’t tell you so…

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

Power is generated to match demand. It isn’t stored. It is like any other product. When demand is higher, the price goes up. Money isn’t only made during peak hours. I have no idea where you got all this information.

Technologies are being developed and capital infrastructure is being built to store generated ‘power’ in batteries for use at a later time.

Many of these large-scale ‘energy storage farms’ are being built adjacent to power plants.

Do an internet search on ‘battery farms for storage of generated energy’ or similar for more info on this.

Here’s a wiki entry fwiw -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...torage_power_station

^^^Current battery storage capacity is a tiny, tiny fraction of total power needed in the US every day. Until it gets more cost effective, it won’t be widely used in the US. That’s why it’s only used as a measure of grid stabilization at present. There’s a lot of possibilities in the future though as batteries get less expensive, capacity increases and battery size decreases.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Power is generated to match demand. It isn’t stored.

That's almost exactly what I said, I just added the reason it isn't stored.

quote:

When demand is higher, the price goes up.

Agreed and I even pointed out why that is.

quote:

Money isn’t only made during peak hours.

I never said or implied that at all. What I said is based on basic accounting for fixed and variable costs. The fixed costs related to power plant's capacity used to cover peak hours are recovered by charging more for the electricity produced during those peak hours. Money is being made any time the plant is producing electricity.

Take a coal fired plant. It burns coal, boils water, creates steam, which turns turbines connected to generators that make the electricity. The generators run at a fixed rpm (a multiple of 60 like 1,800 or 3,600) and produce a fixed amount of electricity. You can't just spin them faster to make more electricity because 60hz alternating current. Instead, you burn more coal, create more steam, turn a few valves to direct that steam to turn more steam turbine generators and generate more electricity. Those generators cost money, have a finite life as well as maintence costs that can only be recovered when they are running, hence the costs are recovered over a shorter period of time than the costs associated with the generators that run 24/7, so the company charges more for the electricity they produce.

quote:

I have no idea where you got all this information.

I freely admitted I made the percentages up, but that doesn't mean my basic understanding of how power plants work isn't correct. That basic knowledge came from various field trips, educational experiences, books, magazines, and conversations with my grandfather who worked for Detroit Edison for 50 years.

CA tagged vehicles are all over Tucson like lice

they can't ALL be rentals, although if I was looking for one, I'd reject a rental with a CA tag - any other state is fine, just not CA

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The generators run at a fixed rpm (a multiple of 60 like 1,800 or 3,600) and produce a fixed amount of electricity. You can't just spin them faster to make more electricity because 60hz alternating current. Instead, you burn more coal, create more steam, turn a few valves to direct that steam to turn more steam turbine generators and generate more electricity.

What? Man, that ain't how it works.

I wonder how to spell stupid in spanish. Gavin must know.[/QUOTE]

Pendejo…

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
WTF? I’m not trying to frame anything or make excuses for California. It’s the way power plants work around the world.

I'm not debating how power plants function. I'm asserting that anyone stupid enough to mandate an outcome that is wholly unsupported in any realistic way is a moron of the highest order. California has failed on every level when it comes to assessing and providing the energy their state needs to function as a first world society.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
What? Man, that ain't how it works.

Which part? Here's the video I showed two 7th grade science classes I subbed for last year: Alabama Power's Miller Plant. I don't see anything there that doesn't agree with what I wrote. The last thing I want to do is have kids I subbed for be shown in videos of morons that don't have a clue about anything.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
I'm not debating how power plants function. I'm asserting that anyone stupid enough to mandate an outcome that is wholly unsupported in any realistic way is a moron of the highest order. California has failed on every level when it comes to assessing and providing the energy their state needs to function as a first world society.

And I agree with you which is why I don't have a clue why you took exception to what I wrote as a basic explanation to konata88's questioning of the 4-9 thing which is hardly limited to California.

Tucker Carlson brought up an interesting point the other night I hadn't even considered. EV's run almost solely on technology. We've discussed right here how Tesla essentially controls the cars they sell, and can do as they please with them from afar. Carlson's assertion was that the government wants people in EV's so that government has full control over those cars and hence, people's mobility. Piss off Uncle Sam by doing something they don't like or voting the wrong way and guess what? You go nowhere when your EV is disabled? We see the same thing happening today with big tech censoring and cancelling people off the internet when instructed to do so by the government.

Ten years ago I'd have called stuff like this nothing more than tinfoil hattery, but given what we've seen out of this government and their partners over the past few years, I'm inclined to take Carlson's comments a bit more seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
And I agree with you which is why I don't have a clue why you took exception to what I wrote as a basic explanation to konata88's questioning of the 4-9 thing which is hardly limited to California.

The 4-9 thing taken in context is like trying to stop the bleeding from a .308 round with one of little Joey's Spiderman Band-Aids. It 'might' ease the suffering for the power company ever so slightly, but it won't scratch the surface on solving the growing problem California is facing. And Newsome's decree of all EV's by 2035 is like a toddler stomping their feet and screaming for a cookie, when there are no cookies in the house. There is no reasoning with a child, just like there is no reasoning with a moronic progressive (i.e. socialist).

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I don't see anything there that doesn't agree with what I wrote. The last thing I want to do is have kids I subbed for be shown in videos of morons that don't have a clue about anything.

Yes, generators are constant speed, but they have a wide load range. You seemed to imply that when running, they are pumping out the same power all the time. They produce power based on load demand. It's not a fixed amount of power produced at 1800rpm. Is that not what you said? Perhaps I misunderstood you.

Obviously it's possible that the generator and/or prime mover will reach a max load that it can handle in which case more generators will need to be brought on line to meet demand.

I knew I’d get called out on that. In the interest of brevity, I left that out because it was not germane to my point which was the plants have multiple generators and some of those are only used during periods of peak demand. I should have said something like each generator has a maximum amount of electricity beyond which it just can’t be pushed harder or faster… I don’t know, I’m still having trouble with the words.

Maybe I should have used a more extreme example like the Saint Marys Hydropower Plant in the Soo. It has 74 generators each having a narrow range of electricity they can produce due to the limits of the 16’ fall of the water. When demand rises, they open the sluices for additional generators and vice versa.

One of the reasons the California has the 4-9 thing is that a significant portion of California's power is generated by solar.

During the day, when the sun is shining bright, much power is produced and supply is healthy and thus power is cheap.

Around 4pm, solar begins it's gradual dropoff. The supply is constrained, power becomes more expensive.

If I recall correctly, peak hours used to be earlier in the day--coinciding with heavy business use. It wasn't until solar became a thing that it got shifted back into the dark hours.

quote:

Originally posted by RogB:
"California’s grid operator is telling residents not to charge their electric cars during regular heat waves in order to avoid straining the grid.

Geez... There HAS to be something in the water

But, no biggie, just buy a gas powered generator to charge your EV! You could even carry it and a can of gas with you to use as needed. Heck, run the generator and charge WHILE driving!

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Yea. But it's different when you make that decision while importing SEVENTY, nanajyu, setenta, 70% of your electricity from other states.

If I bought an EV, I would depend on OTHER states to supply me with 7 out of every 10W to charge it.

I wonder how to spell stupid in spanish. Gavin must know.

Estupido.

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:


Geez... There HAS to be something in the water

But, no biggie, just buy a gas powered generator to charge your EV! You could even carry it and a can of gas with you to use as needed. Heck, run the generator and charge WHILE driving!

I really like this idea. Either a sturdy roof rack, or a small trailer, with the generator and gasoline supply. That's the ticket!

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO


California: You need a gas generator to charge your $120K electric super car because the grid is overloaded. You gotta love the irony.

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:

quote:

Originally posted by RogB:
"California’s grid operator is telling residents not to charge their electric cars during regular heat waves in order to avoid straining the grid.

Geez... There HAS to be something in the water

But, no biggie, just buy a gas powered generator to charge your EV! You could even carry it and a can of gas with you to use as needed. Heck, run the generator and charge WHILE driving!

CA has passed a law enacting a ban on the sale of gas generators starting 2028.

I feel really bad for SF members living in CA right now. What a clusterfuck, run by complete morons at every level.