Every petty excuse for the police to bother you is a loose trigger for further injustice. Roosevelt Twyne, a 25-year-old security guard who is African American, is learning this in New Jersey.

Pulled over last month on his way home from work in Roselle Park, New Jersey, for having tinted windows on his car, Twyne informed the police he had his work-related weapon in his possession. The police arrested him, claiming he was carrying both an illegally transported gun and illegal hollow-point ammunition.

According to Twyne's lawyer, Evan Nappen, Twyne had a permit to carry a gun in the state. Nappen insists that permit should have covered the alleged illegality of transporting the weapon in his car. Nappen further points out the brand of ammunition in the car—supplied by his employer—is specifically listed as legal on a New Jersey State Police website.

Nappen said in a phone interview yesterday that the police have come around about the ammunition, and those particular charges have been dropped.

However, Twyne still faces potential prosecution for the weapon charge.

The police insisted to Fox News that "Twyne was charged after it was determined that he was not in compliance with the specifications of the law pertaining to the lawful transportation of his firearm. These charges were approved by the Union County Prosecutor's Office."

The police said in a statement provided to a local TV station that Twyne had his weapon loaded and holstered on his person. Nappen says in an email that a legal requirement to "have a firearm cased and unloaded" under New Jersey statute 2c:39(6g) applies only if one is "transporting by way of exemption, which is inapplicable here. Mr. Twyne was transporting by way of his Chapter 58 NJ Permit to Carry a Handgun, not by way of inapplicable exemptions."

Twyne is being charged under 2C:39-9(d), which states that:

Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any weapon, including gravity knives, switchblade knives, ballistic knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, billies, blackjacks, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings, or, except as otherwise provided in subsection i. of this section, in the case of firearms if he is not licensed or registered to do so as provided in chapter 58, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

Nappen insists that Twyne "has a NJ Permit to Carry a Handgun issued pursuant to Chapter 58" which applies to both his job and getting to and from his job, and does not require the gun to be cased and unloaded as it would if he were merely carrying under a set of statutory exemptions to the laws about possessing handguns.

Jersey gun laws are "very confusing," Nappen grants, and it "is very difficult for citizens, police, and even prosecutors" to figure out what is and isn't legal (not much is) because of "stupid gun laws."

Nappen, who specializes in the state's gun laws, insists he understands things the police and prosecutors bedeviling Twyne do not. "The government is attempting to conflate legally irrelevant requirements under exemptions that do not apply" to a permit-holder like Twyne.

New Jersey's carry laws can be tough to figure out for Americans doing their best to comply and have led to serious disruption to the lives of people who have done no harm. Two notorious cases are indicative of this: Shaneen Allen, an African American single mother of two who was naive enough to think being licensed to carry in her native Pennsylvania would protect her from Jersey cops (and who only evaded jail after huge public outcry), and Brian Aitken, who was sentenced to seven years for having a legally owned gun unloaded and locked in his trunk because it was legally owned in a state that wasn't New Jersey (he thankfully had his sentence commuted after a few months by Gov. Chris Christie).

Twyne has been charged with a 4th-degree felony, which could come with 18 months in prison.

Whether or not Twyne is vindicated by the law as Nappen insists he should and will be, this arrest—caused by a wicked combination of the police's nearly unlimited power to harass drivers and New Jersey's convoluted gun laws—has already seriously harmed Twyne, causing him to be suspended from his job, as he told Fox News. "It's a little hard right now trying to find something to keep me on my feet." He currently has a court date scheduled for April 2.

Link: https://reason.com/2020/03/10/...has-permit-to-carry/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Fed161,

Yeah, that is a bad deal for the kid.

The Supremes should have nipped this 2nd Amendment suppression by rogue states in the bud the instant Kavanaugh was appointed.

People need to come to the realization that the police are not your friend. When the day finally comes that police aren't given blanket support by the brainwashed masses, their attitude and methods will have to change.

Although it may have been unavoidable in this case, you should never volunteer any information to the police. If I get pulled over by police on the way to or from the range, there's no way I'm telling them there's a firearm in my vehicle. Nothing good could possibly come from it.

Having said that, this guard should have known better and I'm not convinced that he didn't beak the law. Most of you already know that it's impossible to get a typical carry permit in NJ. It's my understanding that permits issued for security work are only valid while you're on duty. I could very well be wrong about that though as I haven't really researched it. Also, I don't think armored car drivers are permitted to use their own firearm so that's another wrinkle. His company may allow it.

With regard to hollow point ammunition, you'd be astounded how many police officers don't know the law. Clearly, these officers didn't so perhaps their wrong on the other charge as well. If they are wrong on all counts, don't expect them to freely admit it. They'll try to work a deal where they don't get sued even if it means putting an innocent person through the wringer.

quote:

Originally posted by pessimist:
Although it may have been unavoidable in this case, you should never volunteer any information to the police. If I get pulled over by police on the way to or from the range, there's no way I'm telling them there's a firearm in my vehicle. Nothing good could possibly come from it.

Having said that, this guard should have known better and I'm not convinced that he didn't beak the law. Most of you already know that it's impossible to get a typical carry permit in NJ. It's my understanding that permits issued for security work are only valid while you're on duty. I could very well be wrong about that though as I haven't really researched it. Also, I don't think armored car drivers are permitted to use their own firearm so that's another wrinkle. His company may allow it.

I completely disagree with this statement. I live in a state where I'm not required to inform, but I do out of courtesy to the officer. In fact, I'm convinced that this action has resulted in not receiving a ticket and only a verbal warning.

These officers need to be assured that they are not dealing with a "dirt-bag" and instead a law abiding (getting pulled over not withstanding) citizen. I will give them every credit for the job they do.

Maybe it is a Southern thing.....but many of the officers remark that they find lawful gun owners who inform a welcomed relief from the crap they usually get.

So, I will continue to inform and present my credentials in a manner that puts them at ease.

I will also continue to avoid traveling to any state that infringes on my right for protection/security (IL, NJ, NY or pretty much anything in the North East and of course CA!!!).

Andrew

I was born and raised in NJ and moved out when I was 21, in 1995. NJ is a police state, period. Until you actually experience it, you cannot believe how the police act there. This really sucks for the guy, but I am not surprised. The police in NJ are literally out to get you.

quote:

Originally posted by pessimist:
Although it may have been unavoidable in this case, you should never volunteer any information to the police.

Sorry, that's not universally true.

NC law (and that of some other states) makes this particular situation an exception. In NC, permit holders must notify LEOs of the fact:
2014 NC concealed carry summary

quote:

Q. What should I do if approached by a law enforcement officer while carrying a concealed
handgun?

A. Disclosure to law enforcement officers is required. You should make the disclosure as soon as
you are approached by an officer. You should tell the officer you are carrying a concealed
handgun with your hands visible to the officer and you should not attempt to reach for the
concealed handgun or your permit. Disclosure to the officer is ONLY required if you are actually
carrying the concealed handgun on or “about” your person.

Not saying that NJ has this requirement - don't know and (since I don't go there) don't really care, other than generalized hoping that NJ would one day wake up and smell the coffee wrt firearms.

What I am saying is that 'never volunteer any information' while carrying could get you in legal trouble in some jurisdictions.

^^^^ So every time a cop walks past you’re supposed to exclaim that you have a gun while putting your hands up?

Sounds like a well thought out law.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I was born and raised in NJ and moved out when I was 21, in 1995. NJ is a police state, period. Until you actually experience it, you cannot believe how the police act there. This really sucks for the guy, but I am not surprised. The police in NJ are literally out to get you.

Where does that mentality come from?

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I was born and raised in NJ and moved out when I was 21, in 1995. NJ is a police state, period. Until you actually experience it, you cannot believe how the police act there. This really sucks for the guy, but I am not surprised. The police in NJ are literally out to get you.

Where does that mentality come from?

Experience. Not all places are like the inside of your cocoon.

It’s true. You don’t tell a NJ cop shit. Especially the state police.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
^^^^ So every time a cop walks past you’re supposed to exclaim that you have a gun while putting your hands up?

Sounds like a well thought out law.

That’s a bit in the ridiculous side, wouldn’t you say? You’re required to notify upon interaction initiated for a lawful purpose. Like say, a traffic stop. When I worked in NC, I appreciated it and didn’t treat drivers any differently; except perhaps to shoot the breeze about guns for a minute or two. It’s not a shithole leftist state after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I was born and raised in NJ and moved out when I was 21, in 1995. NJ is a police state, period. Until you actually experience it, you cannot believe how the police act there. This really sucks for the guy, but I am not surprised. The police in NJ are literally out to get you.

Where does that mentality come from?

It is based on my experiences while I lived there, and when I used to go back to visit my family. This case is a perfect example, the NJ police will use any excuse to pull you over. They are everywhere, constantly looking for people to pull over. It started out as being stopped for tinted windows, then quickly escalates into a felony charge.

Another example, back in 2008 I was doing contract work for Bristol Myers Squib in Princeton. At that time my parents still lived in NJ, about 45 minutes away in northern NJ. About once per month I would drive up and see them after work. One night, about 12:30 AM I was heading back to my hotel, about 10 minutes from my parents house, on a small highway with a 50 mph speed limit. I was on the phone with my wife and I see a town cop doing radar, looked down and I have the cruise control set at 52. Sweet, I thought, no biggie. Then I see the lights in my rear view mirror. I pull over, and I am approached. The reason I was pulled over, I was talking on my cell phone, with it up to my ear. You see, in NJ, that is illegal, unless you are law enforcement.

The police officer then proceeds to tell me that it is also illegal to talk on a cell phone in Colorado, where I now live! I politely explain to him that he is wrong, and he tells me I am wrong. He knows better than I do, even though I am a resident of Colorado. I accepted and later paid the $130 ticket for having a cell phone up to my ear while driving.

I have many more examples of how the police act in NJ. NJ is a police state and are certainly no friends of gun owners.

Colorado, on the other hand, is vastly different, based on my experiences. It is a night and day difference between CO LEO and NJ LEO.

Not surprising that the NJ Staties wear these uniforms...

I lived there for about a year in my earlier years.
Gun laws are somewhere down a long list of reasons to not live in NJ. Same goes for NY and several other anti-gun states , several of which are in that immediate vicinity.

I grew up in NJ and my folks still live there, so I get back there about once a year. I've been pulled over plenty of times in NJ, never gotten a ticket. If you give them a reason to think you're trouble or have something to hide, I can see them going all out to bust you. But cops generally get a vibe as to whether someone is gonna give them trouble or not and then act accordingly.

That said, NJ residents get what they deserve with their stupid gun laws and state politics. I can't count how many people I knew/know there who really consider themselves "common sense conservatives" and are as far left as any of the Dem POTUS candidates.

Don't know anything about cops in NJ and not trying to denigrate any LEO, but since when are tinted windows illegal in NJ...that was the basis for the initial stop.

I served on a grand jury once where it seemed that cops were pulling over people under the premises of checking the window tint darkness and then looking for other evidence of crimes. Seems like abuse of power and illegal search and seizure to me.

Did they run his plates and see that he had a carry permit and were hoping to jack him up and then used the tinted windows thing as an excuse to pull him over?

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
Don't know anything about cops in NJ and not trying to denigrate any LEO, but since when are tinted windows illegal in NJ...that was the basis for the initial stop.

Mr. Twyne is a fool for having tinted windows in NJ. Tinted windows and expired inspection stickers are probably the leading causes for traffic stops in NJ. You have to have your car "inspected" every year in NJ. Not just emissions, but a whole host of other things (they test high and low beams, looseness in the front end, horn, wipers...).

That small highway above I referenced... I have had friends going in the opposite direction (4 lane divided highway with grass median) and a police officer sees the expired sticker, drives through the median, make a 180 degree turn, to make the traffic stop for an expired sticker.

It is my understanding, front driver and passenger windows must be zero percent tinted in NJ.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
Don't know anything about cops in NJ and not trying to denigrate any LEO, but since when are tinted windows illegal in NJ...that was the basis for the initial stop.

I served on a grand jury once where it seemed that cops were pulling over people under the premises of checking the window tint darkness and then looking for other evidence of crimes. Seems like abuse of power and illegal search and seizure to me.

Did they run his plates and see that he had a carry permit and were hoping to jack him up and then used the tinted windows thing as an excuse to pull him over?

Tinted windows in the front are illegal in NJ. The law is for the safety of police officers. Of course, the law doesn't apply to police cars. Many are tinted, again, for the safety of police officers.

Way back in 1974 I was attending the NJ State Police Academy, the Municipal Officers course. Several weeks into the academy we had occasion to discuss the States firearms laws. I brought up the 2nd Amendment and argued that some of the common practices they were teaching, regarding firearms, were ILLEGAL and against the 2nd Amendment.

I was later brought into an office and grilled as to WHY I was at the Academy? Was I working for a news outlet, did I have some agenda, etc. I damned near got kicked out!

New Jersey IS out of hand. Especially the State Police. The NJSP is a very efficient and well run organization, that does a great job. But there is no doubt they tend to get "over zealous" at times. They have a hard on for gun owners for sure.

The pistol permit situation has always been about power and pay offs. I've seen politicians with permits to carry as well as small time mobsters! But seldom any standard old citizens.

My experience in NJ LE was from 1970 to 1979 then I moved to MT. I had many friends and SEVERAL relatives on the job. It's a bit of a racket. Well paid, drive as you wish as another LE wont write You. It's a bit of a "get out of jail free" affair.

The "professional courtesy" thing goes on with cops everywhere, to a degree, but it was on steroids in NY/NJ.

The citizens of New Jersey got what they deserve. They have voted demos in forever. The LE community has gotten more and more powerful there over the years. Much of it after the riots of the 1960's, then again post 9/11. The VAST majority of cops there are good people doing a tough job the best they can. Like the rest of the US. Unfortunately there is always the FEW who take their power too far.

But it sure seemed during my time there that firearms and their owners were ALWAYS needlessly picked on.