It seriously took a lot for me to stop buying music CDs or Xbox game disc and to go with digital downloads. There was something about having the disc. For music I would rip the CD to digital files.

I finally went to digital downloads and have found it much better. You can have it on any device and download again if you delete it. No worry about losing the CD because your digital purchases are online and you can re-download.

Apple Music for popular/rock stuff; Adagio for classical music. Plays on my iPhone, and via Apple CarPlay in the car. Have a 512 GB iPhone so not worried about filling it up with music.
Also I can choose how high I want the fi.
FLAC, Apple Lossless, WAV all uncompressed.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Cool thanks. Okay, buy CDs and rip to mp3 for phone.

Car only has CD player - my cars are older than 10 years. Actually older than 20 years - I still have a cassette player. .

Rip CDs to a lossless format like flac. They take up more space but the quality difference is noticeable. MP3 degrades sound quite a bit. It is one reason why streaming services don't sound too good.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Now for some good news. The Codec used for Apple Music files has a much better sound that CD's. My hunch is that during the conversion process the soundstream is fed thru an digital to analog filtering scheme that smooths the spikes present in a digital file.

CD's were a rather early codec and at the time it was felt that the mass of a moving speaker cone would smooth any digital artifacts. Unfortunately in the real world high end tweeters have very short response times that allows these artifacts to become sort of audible. Basically it's an annoying harshness that becomes fatiguing in time, so you turn the volume down.

CDs use uncompressed linear pulse-code modulation. LPCM doesn't even really qualify as a codec, it's literally just a series of measurements of the amplitude of the audio signal (samples) taken every so often (sampling frequency).

Aside from a few fairly rare/exotic formats (Bitstream, DSD), literally every commonly used consumer digital audio format is either LPCM or uncompresses to LPCM.

Apple Music does not use bitstream or DSD. Apple Music can stream music using lossy (AAC) or lossless (ALAC) compressed codecs. Both of these formats decode to LCPM.

Some Apple Music content is only available at 16-bit sampling depth and 44.1kHz sampling frequency. This is the same sampling depth and frequency as CD audio. A 16-bit 44.1kHz ALAC audio file from Apple Music would sound EXACTLY the same as a CD that had the same audio on it, because the 16-bit 44.1kHz ALAC audio file would be decompressed into an EXACTLY bit-for-bit identical 16-bit 44.1kHz LPCM audio stream.

Some Apple Music content is available in higher bit depths and/or sampling frequencies than CD audio (e.g., 24-bit 192kHz).

There is always a fight going on between audiophiles, who claim the higher bit depths and sampling frequencies make a huge difference, and the scientists and audio engineers who claim there shouldn't be an audible difference. I have never seen anyone reliably identify CD-audio vs. higher-resolution audio by ear in double blind testing.

The main audible difference in most cases is probably not the sample depth and frequency, but the quality of the MASTER used in producing the digital file. Early CDs especially were notorious for using horrible masters. Many recordings have had a number of different masters produced, and an online service, especially one offering high-res audio, may be using a much better master than what was used on the equivalent CD.

Similarly, while a CD is in most ways technically superior to vinyl in audio reproduction, an LP in good condition that is a good pressing of a good master will inarguably sound much better than a CD made with a bad master.

Is this to say, for a given master, one can be indifferent in purchasing online vs a CD wet music quality?

ETA: a nice bonus to buying a cd is that sometimes it gives you free access to the title on the prime music app. Can listen on atv and my phone without even opening the jewel case.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: konata88,

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Is this to say, for a given master, one can be indifferent in purchasing online vs a CD wet music quality?

With some caveats and nitpicking, yes.

First, this applies to uncompressed (WAV) or losslessly compressed (FLAC, ALAC) downloads.

Lossless compression, by definition, makes the file a little smaller without losing any information. If you uncompress it, you get back EXACTLY what you had before you compressed it.

Lossy compression (MP3, AAC, OGG, etc) makes the file significantly smaller, maybe a lot smaller, but does it by throwing away information - information the compression algorithm assumes isn’t very important and that won’t be very noticeable in its absence. If you attempt to “uncompress” a lossy compressed file, you do NOT get back what you put in.

If you are downloading an uncompressed or losslessly compressed 16-bit 44.1kHz audio file, if we handwave away the lossless compression, that audio file is using exactly the same underlying audio representation as a CD with exactly the same sound quality potential.

Higher sample depths and frequencies (e.g. 24-bit 192kHz) probably won’t sound any better but certainly won’t sound any worse.

I’ve hedged some here because I don’t know exactly what goes on behind the scenes at the online music vendors and the music distributors. They obviously aren’t just buying CDs as they come out and ripping them - if nothing else, some of the music is available in higher resolutions than CDs support.

I don’t know that if, e.g., Apple Music calls up UMG and says “send over the 16-bit 44.1kHz audio files for that new album that came out today” they get bit-for-bit exactly the same thing that’s on the CD, or that they don’t do any processing to the files after they get them. Or maybe they get the 24-bit 192kHz files, but you want to download at 16-bit 44.1kHz, and the online service didn’t get those files from the record company, they downsampled the higher-res audio themselves - there are different downsampling algorithms and they don’t produce exactly the same results.

None of that means it is likely to sound WORSE, just that there is some wiggle room in areas I don’t know a lot about for the download not to be exactly identical to the CD.

After all that, the short answer is, barring master differences, unless somebody did something really stupid somewhere, an uncompressed or losslessly compressed download should sound at least as good as a CD.

Ok. Final dumb question. I’m still trying to find out. I know I can burn a cd on a Mac; can I burn a cd using and iPad or iPhone. Let’s say I buy music from iTunes but I only have an iPad / iPhone. But need to burn a cd to listen in the car. Can I do it? Doesn’t seem like it but not sure.

From what I can tell, it is technically possible if you jailbreak it, buy some special cords and connectors, and do a bunch of command-line Unix stuff, but realistically, no.

Another good reason to buy a CD is the cover art. When LP's were going away I lamented the fact that so much awesome album cover art was not going to be available in the large size that I liked. CD's were ok, but not as good for the art. Now with digital downloads the cover art might or might not appear as a tiny thumbnail on your music list. Also the liner notes and lyrics aren't easily available, unless the artist puts that on their website.

quote:

Originally posted by Sacramento Johnson:

I say buy all the hard copies (CDs) you can now, as I suspect they will disappear sooner than later; they can't be as 'controlled' as down loads.

I agree, this is why I'm buying more lately, especially on albums that are on the fringe of the mainstream. They are disappearing already, there are albums I bought in recent years that are no longer available. And like robbiedog, I buy also for the cover art and liner notes, especially nice on re-issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I’ve been curious about the re-popularity of vinyl. I didn’t like vinyl when it was the only thing available. Well other than some form of tape. I’ve loved CDs ever since they became affordable. Why is vinyl popular again?

Because Vinyl SOUNDS BETTER.

That is merely an opinion.
Not that I necessarily disagree or agree but it is not a fact.

I was in the Audio business when CD's were being introduced (early eighties).
We brought out may the first or nearly so one ~ Hitachi DA1000.
The very first impression was the massive loss of noise and the incredible bass.

You can of course achieve some spectacular sound with vinyl LP's but you must have everything going for you in the system.
And program material that is heavier to cover up noise is helpful.
Nonetheless the sound is unique and quite good.
Keep in mind back then all masters were analog.
Everything today is digital first.
Recording techniques and recording quality today far exceeds the past.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
My cars, for example, only allows for CDs. My phone can't take CDs. My receiver can use either streaming (ATV) or a CD (blu-ray).

So I can burn a CD after buying music online. Or I can buy the CD and then rip it for use on my phone.

Per the above, sounds like buying CD and then ripping is the way to go.

Your car doesn’t have an Aux-in Jack?

That’s how I do it

Aux-in on one end, Lightning (iPhone) on the other end

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Your car doesn’t have an Aux-in Jack?

That’s how I do it

Aux-in on one end, Lightning (iPhone) on the other end

Nope. But, I tried using the cassette tape adapter to 3.5mm jack. But that was noisy and drove me nuts. My cars are old - I can't afford new cars so I run mine into the ground.