My sister in law is an anti Trump liberal asshole. Now that I got that out of the way, I'll get on to my question to you.

Her 34 year old stepson is bipolar and is collecting social security disability because of it, he lives with his mother who is also bipolar. He recently purchased a handgun (which is his first firearm). She tells me that President Trump signed some law making it legal for him to do so, WTF!

Could she possibly be correct? I told her he had to lie on his Federal form 4473 about his mental condition, along with his use of marijuana.

I believe this is what she's talking about.

Link

WASHINGTON — President Trump killed a regulation that would have tightened gun background checks Tuesday, signing a bill to undo one of his predecessor's executive actions following the San Bernardino shootings in 2015.

The Obama administration rule required the Social Security Administration to submit records of mentally disabled people to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, the FBI database used to determine whether someone can buy a firearm under the 1993 Brady Bill.

The rule would have applied to about 75,000 people who were “adjudicated as a mental defective" and who had applied for Social Security benefits, and had a mechanism to notify those affected so they could appeal. But congressional Republicans said the rule could ensnare people who had mental health issues but otherwise were competent to own a gun.

The Social Security Administration finalized the rule last Dec. 19. But under the Congressional Review Act, Congress has 60 legislative days to disapprove of any new regulation on straight majority votes. The vote was 57-43 in the Senate and 235-180 in the House.



Trump and the Republican Congress have already used that tactic three times, rolling back Obama-era regulations requiring oil and mining companies to disclose payments to foreign governments, and the stream protection rule that required coal companies to mitigate the effects of mining on waterways.

The bill signing fulfills a campaign promise for Trump. Even before Obama announced his executive actions before his State of the Union Address last year, Trump said he would "un-sign that so fast" once he becomes president.

Trump signed the bill without a public ceremony Tuesday, the last day to sign it into law under the constitution's 10-day requirement.



Instead, Trump held a public signing ceremony Tuesday for two bills the White House preferred to draw attention to:

► The Promoting Women in Entrepreneurship Act, sponsored by Rep. Elizabeth Esty, D-Conn., which authorizes the National Science Foundation to encourage its entrepreneurial programs to recruit and support women.

► The Inspiring the Next Space Pioneers, Innovators, Researchers, and Explorers Women Act, sponsored by Rep. Barbara Comstock, R-Va., which directs NASA to encourage women and girls to study science, technology, engineering, and mathematics and pursue careers in aerospace.

Both of those bills were so uncontroversial they passed Congress on voice votes.

The bills were promoted by first daughter Ivanka Trump, who has been a champion of women's issues in the White House. "Closing the gender gap in STEM fields is essential to both innovation and workforce development," she said on Facebook. "I look forward to working alongside my father to champion the economic empowerment of women and girls and encouraging gender diversity in STEM fields is critical to that mission."


Link to video

These liberal news sites also misrepresent the Obama rule Trump recently unsigned.

The rule didn't "require the Social Security Administration report metally ill people to nics".

The Obama order required the Social Security Administration to report anyone who attempted to sign up for social security benefits under any PTSD related disability.

The SSA isn't qualified to determine which PTSD issues make the SS recipient a threat to others, and which don't. As such, the president decided that the SSA shouldn't be deciding which veterans lose thier rights and which don't.

The rule her son referenced did not absolve him of responsibility for lying on the 4473:

Question 11f - "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Please pardon the thread drift, but…

"Her 34 year old stepson is bipolar and is collecting social security disability because of it"

That's what breaks SS.

Seems to me that he lied on the 4473...

Being Bipolar and on disability may not meet this standard:

Question 11f - "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Lying about illegal drug use makes (at least technically) him a felon if caught.

So....She thinks her son's criminal behavior is Trump's fault. Impressive.

Print the form and circle both 11e and 11f for her.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

The drugs they use for Bi-polar can cause the individual to become suicidal if they stop taking the drug or withdraw too quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by SigP239Hokie:
Seems to me that he lied on the 4473...

I don't think he did. 11e is regarding unlawful use, if his bipolar meds are prescribed it's not unlawful. 11f would mean a court has ruled he's mentally incompetent.

Unfortunately, it sounds like a legal purchase. However, I think he shouldn't own a handgun given his mental condition.

As noted above the 4473 mental health question is quite a bit more specific than just do you have a mental illness. It inquires if you have been committed to an institution involuntarily or have a condition presenting a danger to self or others. I know plenty of people drawing high percentage ptsd disability from the VA who I would completely trust owning a firearm. Some with high percentage ptsd disability ratings are still in service with routine access to automatic weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
I told her he had to lie on his Federal form 4473 about his mental condition

quote:

Originally posted by Ken226:
The rule her son referenced did not absolve him of responsibility for lying on the 4473:

Question 11f - "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
Print the form and circle both 11e and 11f for her.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Being diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder does not qualify someone as having been "adjudicated as a mental defective" and does not require having been "committed to a mental institution."

Check the instructions on the back of the 4473.

quote:

Question 11.f Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, or commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

Committed to a Mental Institution: A formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.

The question requires a specific, formal legal decision about a person's status or an involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

Seems we don't know enough to say if 11f applies. Seems to me we do know 11e, regarding (at least) MJ, applies, correct?

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:...long with his use of marijuana.

ATF Form 4473
11
e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?”

the ATF has added the following clarification to question 11e, “The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.”

So, yeah, circle 11e and the added statement, and show her.
He is an unlawful user of the MaryJ, according to the BATF.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled last August that the ban on sales of guns to medical marijuana card holders does not violate the Second Amendment. The court ruled that Congress reasonably concluded that marijuana “raises the risk of irrational or unpredictable behavior with which gun use should not be associated.” The court also concluded that it’s reasonable for regulators to assume medical marijuana card holders use marijuana.

President Trump did nothing to change this.

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
Seems we don't know enough to say if 11f applies. Seems to me we do know 11e, regarding (at least) MJ, applies, correct?

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think so.

My understanding is that regardless of state laws about recreational or medical marijuana use, it remains an illegal drug under federal law, so ANYONE who uses it is an "unlawful user."

quote:

The court ruled that Congress reasonably concluded that marijuana “raises the risk of irrational or unpredictable behavior with which gun use should not be associated.”

I think it's hard to argue that this isn't true, but it's certainly inconsistent.

Alcohol “raises the risk of irrational or unpredictable behavior with which gun use should not be associated" at least as much as marijuana does, and alcohol use doesn't prohibit someone from owning firearms.

^^^ Certainly, but that's a different discussion and ongoing debate, i.e., prohibition of pot but not of booze.

Regardless of the logic, the OP's nephew seems likely to have made a false claim on a federal from and to be in illegal possession of a firearm. (IANAL)

He didn't lie about his mental condition if he was not adjudicated IN A COURT of being defective or had not been committed BY A COURT to a mental hospital. Those are very specific things, and are not very common at all.

If he smokes weed, he lied on the drug question. As have, I would bet, a fair number of members here.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't lie about his mental condition if he was not adjudicated IN A COURT of being defective or had not been committed BY A COURT to a mental hospital. Those are very specific things, and are not very common at all.

If he smokes weed, he lied on the drug question. As have, I would bet, a fair number of members here.

Most likely true. Of course, the point of the OP was that Trump made it legal for the nephew to purchase a gun. His purchase was in fact illegal, just for a different reason than what the SIL is focused on.

Next question, if I may, are the homeowners/people on the lease (the parents) legally responsible if there is an illegally obtained firearm in the home?

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Please pardon the thread drift, but…

"Her 34 year old stepson is bipolar and is collecting social security disability because of it"

That's what breaks SS.

You bet, and I for one am sick of this crap! This and all the mishandeling of the SS program is why it is in the shape it is in right now.

Just minimize your visits...