Gun dealers: low cost volume sales vs traditional model

January 17, 2018, 09:16 PM

Dusty78

quote:
Originally posted by safespot:
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty78:
...I know a guy who has an FFL and sells at local gunshows. He sells all his guns at $20 above cost. He will sell between 2-300 guns per show.

I'm certain I know who you're talking about and have bought from him multiple times. His business has a funny name.

He is THE go-to dealer at local shows, and not just because of price. This guy and his wife are honest, hard-working people... the kind I like to deal with.

Yes great people. I have been pestering him to open a shop. If he builds it they will come. The night before the show I message him and ask if he has XYZ and if so he puts it away for me and I pick it up. I bought two guns from him last week. If you saw my post in the pistol section about the screaming deals I got on 2 HK pistols then you know how good his prices are.

January 17, 2018, 09:17 PM

mutedblade

quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
quote:
The manufacturer could toss up their own website, take their own orders, and ship them out to FFLs to do the transfers....if anybody is even willing to do that.

They aren't willing to do that. Too much paperwork, deadbeats that don't pay etc.

As far as the cover charge deal, I agree wholeheartedly. You're going to come in to my place of business, fingerbang everything, waste my salesmans time, and then buy online for $30 cheaper and have me do the transfer? GTFO. Leave. If all of the other FFLs in my area said the same thing, you'd be hosed.

That's why I love Glock so much. MAP and MTP are enforced with an iron fist. Want to be a GSD? Brick and mortar store with at least 35 business hours per week. Violations are dealt with in typical Austrian fashion.

I'm gonna give you a perfect example of what happens to us consumers: All prices for a S&W M&P15 Sport II in 5.56 local (within 40 minute drive of where I sit now)

Mom and pop gun shop 1) $899.99
Big Box gun shop (Green Top) 2) Regular Price $739.00 On sale for $599.99
Bigger Box gun shop (BPS) 3) $699.99
Buds Gun Shop 4) $499.00 Cash/$513.97 Retail

If my math is right, that is $400 difference from the local mom and pop vs Buds Gun Shop. We aren't talking a measly $30 on most things. This is real money with real implications on peoples financial security. Giving unverified anecdotal numbers is one thing, but I can do this for every gun my LGS carries (or more likely can order me

) The markups are insane and deals are only valid on the 6th Thursday of the 13th month in the same calendar year as you were born

Why should any person looking to buy anything not do so responsibly? I could go get that M&P 15 from mamma down the road for $900 or I can get 1 from Buds plus a case of ammo or 2 from PSA. Hmmmmm, let me think.....Who is wasting whose time?

January 17, 2018, 09:24 PM

patw

We, in Florida, had a similar dealer do the same thing-high volume,low profit. Other dealers at the gun shows were not making any money as this one dealer,Shoot Straight, would have a much better selection and a cheaper price. I remember when the guy first started and had a small inventory and he still sold firearms cheaper than anyone else. He was eventually booted from the big gun shows due to the owner/promoter of the show was getting flack from the other smaller dealers saying they weren't going to rent tables anymore as they didn't make any money because people went to the low guy. Now the shows are pathetic and have more crafts, cheap Chinese optics, etc., than firearms and the firearms you do find are priced high. I can understand both sides, but when you decide to sell "new and used" guns at higher prices than the net or other/bigger dealers, you will suffer and that is business. Granted the big guy needed a lot of help as he had rented numerous tables about 25 or 30, per show and sometimes there were a couple different shows in different areas of the state and his staff were kind of short with people (not angry) but they were dealing with numerous people at a time. He now has over 8 large stores/ranges all over the state and they make other larger dealers like Bass Pro,for example, look anorexic with their inventory.

On a side note, I will stand up for the beef jerky guy.

January 17, 2018, 09:24 PM

Dusty78

It’s also not bad for people who previously couldn’t afford quality guns to be able to do so now due to competitive prices. There was a time where hard working blue collar people wouldn’t dream about plunking down Sig money for a pistol. Now it’s attainable. Hell I saw a Sig 229 SAS 9mm on sale yestersybfor sub $650. That’s shield money to some of these dealers lol.

January 17, 2018, 09:30 PM

sigspecops

I bet the old gun store owners wish they could operate like bass pro and cabelas. Every time I go there people are lined up to get bad advice and pay $100 to $300 more than a typical internet store. If they were the only gun stores I had to choose from I wouldn't have any guns.

January 17, 2018, 09:45 PM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by sigspecops:
I bet the old gun store owners wish they could operate like bass pro and cabelas. Every time I go there people are lined up to get bad advice and pay $100 to $300 more than a typical internet store. If they were the only gun stores I had to choose from I wouldn't have any guns.

Yeah, they need that caramel popcorn machine and manners - plus all the boats, trailers, and other shit that makes people want to go to Cabelas, as opposed to the shoddy LGS with sweaty mouth breathers open carrying their junk and acting like they are the captain of the H/S football team.

January 17, 2018, 09:54 PM

Dusty78

A few years back I visited my brother in Chile. There guns are for the rich. His 226 cost like $1800. It has Chilean import marks which I thought was cool. Now the stores that sell these guns are like high end jewelry stores. The sales guys are in suits. They actually put on white gloves to handle the firearms. They are all ex military officers who are incredibly knowledge on the guns they sell and are extememly polite. It was probably the most culture shock I experienced while there.

January 17, 2018, 10:13 PM

XLT

skip the gun dealers and just buy factory direct that would be the ultimate way to do it.
no middle distributor and no gun store you would give up the touchy feely way of doing it but for the price I doubt anyone would complain to much. glock 19 factory direct 300 each who is in ??

January 17, 2018, 10:37 PM

stormwalker

quote:
Originally posted by patw:
We, in Florida, had a similar dealer do the same thing-high volume,low profit. Other dealers at the gun shows were not making any money as this one dealer,Shoot Straight, would have a much better selection and a cheaper price. I remember when the guy first started and had a small inventory and he still sold firearms cheaper than anyone else. He was eventually booted from the big gun shows due to the owner/promoter of the show was getting flack from the other smaller dealers saying they weren't going to rent tables anymore as they didn't make any money because people went to the low guy. Now the shows are pathetic and have more crafts, cheap Chinese optics, etc., than firearms and the firearms you do find are priced high. I can understand both sides, but when you decide to sell "new and used" guns at higher prices than the net or other/bigger dealers, you will suffer and that is business. Granted the big guy needed a lot of help as he had rented numerous tables about 25 or 30, per show and sometimes there were a couple different shows in different areas of the state and his staff were kind of short with people (not angry) but they were dealing with numerous people at a time. He now has over 8 large stores/ranges all over the state and they make other larger dealers like Bass Pro,for example, look anorexic with their inventory.

On a side note, I will stand up for the beef jerky guy.

Kahled Akkawi, owner of Shoot Straight ,most definitely sells at bargain basement prices at his gun-shows. I've been purchasing firearms from his tables for years; last show I bought a NIB FNH Fiveseven MKII for $950. This guy started out in 1979 with one store in Apopka FL., and now has 8 locations. He recently purchased the Suncoast Gunshows and merged it with Florida Gunshows which he already owned. Did I mention that he works the shows as well, you'll see him riding around on a Tour Seg2.

January 17, 2018, 11:12 PM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by mutedblade:

Mom and pop gun shop 1) $899.99
Big Box gun shop (Green Top) 2) Regular Price $739.00 On sale for $599.99
Bigger Box gun shop (BPS) 3) $699.99
Buds Gun Shop 4) $499.00 Cash/$513.97 Retail

Mom & Pop shop is buying their firearms through a distributor and trying to retain the same margin as what they paid for.
Bud's is purchasing direct from the manufacturer for at-once sales.

Both big box stores are also buying direct however, their purchasing power allows them a discount based on volume and they're likely placing pre-season orders, which allows both sides to plan and forecast...and get a discount.

January 17, 2018, 11:19 PM

sunburn

First Shoot Straight I saw was Casselberry and thought that the first store.

January 18, 2018, 09:37 AM

SgtGold

quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Both big box stores are also buying direct however, their purchasing power allows them a discount based on volume and they're likely placing pre-season orders, which allows both sides to plan and forecast...and get a discount.

And then there is Walmart, the biggest retail FFL in the US. They move so much merchandise that they don't pay for the gun until after it's sold.

January 18, 2018, 09:51 AM

Dusty78

quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Both big box stores are also buying direct however, their purchasing power allows them a discount based on volume and they're likely placing pre-season orders, which allows both sides to plan and forecast...and get a discount.

And then there is Walmart, the biggest retail FFL in the US. They move so much merchandise that they don't pay for the gun until after it's sold.

I haven’t seen a Walmart that carry’s guns in years.

January 18, 2018, 10:31 AM

captain127

As times and methods of goods delivery and marketing evolve so must your business. I see a number of sellers on gun broker who run nothing but penny auctions and at times I get a good deal ( like the last case of 380 ammo I bought for $175 shipped) if a seller has 300 auctions running and ending each day and makes just $10 per auction profit that’s 3/4 of a million a year. Not just guns but every retailer is seeing this. When did you ever think mattresses and furniture would be mail order? I just picked up a new car for the wife and the entire deal less the final signing and pick up of the vehicle was done with remote communication ( phone/email) and I bet if I said I wanted the car deliver they would have done it. In a business with such small margins as the gun industry high volume is the only way to make it. Before I moved to free America I could see the evolution ( I think living at the time in an anti gun state was only part of the equation) in the 1980’s there were probably 20 gun shops within a 30 minute drive of my house. By the time I moved in 2016 there were about 5.

January 18, 2018, 10:39 AM

P220 Smudge

quote:
Originally posted by Dusty78:
quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Both big box stores are also buying direct however, their purchasing power allows them a discount based on volume and they're likely placing pre-season orders, which allows both sides to plan and forecast...and get a discount.

And then there is Walmart, the biggest retail FFL in the US. They move so much merchandise that they don't pay for the gun until after it's sold.

I haven’t seen a Walmart that carry’s guns in years.

I think it's up to the individual store, or maybe a regional thing. The one down the street from me stocks a number of sporting long arms and ammo.

January 18, 2018, 10:57 AM

RHINOWSO

Florida WallyWorlds have long guns and ammo.

January 18, 2018, 11:01 AM

MikeGLI

quote:
Originally posted by sunburn:
First Shoot Straight I saw was Casselberry and thought that the first store.

I don't believe so. I'm almost certain that location started out as Niles then was bought out by SS.

January 18, 2018, 11:14 AM

RobC2

quote:
Originally posted by safespot:
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty78:
...I know a guy who has an FFL and sells at local gunshows. He sells all his guns at $20 above cost. He will sell between 2-300 guns per show.

I'm certain I know who you're talking about and have bought from him multiple times. His business has a funny name.

He is THE go-to dealer at local shows, and not just because of price. This guy and his wife are honest, hard-working people... the kind I like to deal with.

Can you guys share the secret? E-mail is fine. Thanks!

January 18, 2018, 12:44 PM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by mutedblade:

Mom and pop gun shop 1) $899.99
Big Box gun shop (Green Top) 2) Regular Price $739.00 On sale for $599.99
Bigger Box gun shop (BPS) 3) $699.99
Buds Gun Shop 4) $499.00 Cash/$513.97 Retail

Mom & Pop shop is buying their firearms through a distributor and trying to retain the same margin as what they paid for.
Bud's is purchasing direct from the manufacturer for at-once sales.

Both big box stores are also buying direct however, their purchasing power allows them a discount based on volume and they're likely placing pre-season orders, which allows both sides to plan and forecast...and get a discount.

Bud's does stock some stuff, but often has new guns listed online that are actually at the distributors, as in never left the dist's inventory,
Bud's pays the Dist once the order is paid for , then the Dist ships to the dealer for the customer,

Bud's surely pays a fee for the shipping hand handling out of the Dist, but also does not have to have any capital tied up in inventory either

Bass/Cabela's etc have deals with both Manufacturers and Distributor's ,
as in some guns are bought from say Savage, factory direct, and others go thru Sport South/Lipseys, etc,

depending on the deal/contract they have with each parent company (of the firearm in question)

and yes, preplan is necessary,
Big Box guys are looking for or have already contracted summer deals now, and likely are placing orders for black Friday merchandise if they have not already,

when you are planning/writing ads for multiple locations you have to operate that way,

lots of apples and oranges conversations here too,

the margin is in used guns, the volume is in new guns (typically 25% + used, 10% on a good day new) for bigger stores,

the real money is made on the other stuff,
cleaning gear, clothing (sometimes 60% +) ammo, accessories etc etc, all of which means you have to lay out the $$$ to have it in stock, then hope your customer base will buy it all,

harder for smaller mom and pop shop to do as well