He should have already lowered the flaps to land. Sounds fishy to me.

I'm not even an aircraft aficionado, except for a passing interest and appreciation for their lines and capabilities, and that's almost enough to make even me cry

quote:

Originally posted by pbramlett:
He made a mistake. Pilots are humans too and sometimes we mess up.

It will fly again.

Theres no excuse with a checklist. I've never made a procedural mistake if I stuck to that list. In other areas, sure

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
I know nothing about jets, but it seems like there would have been a lot of friction between the fuselage and the asphalt of the runway, and a lot of sparks. Sitting on that much high octane fuel, it seems like he is very lucky that he didn't burn up.

Does aluminum generate sparks? The one time I ruined a grinding stone it didn't, but it clogged the stone right quick.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:

high octane fuel

Nope. Jet fuel.

Aviation gasoline has an octane rating. Jet fuel does not.

Jet fuel is much less likely to be ignited by sparks, and if it is, it is more likely to burn, rather than explode (like gasoline might).

I don't think Fury appreciates the belly scratches.

What a shame!! beautiful aircraft, it will fly again $$ perhaps with a different Pilot

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:

high octane fuel

Nope. Jet fuel.

Aviation gasoline has an octane rating. Jet fuel does not.

Jet fuel is much less likely to be ignited by sparks, and if it is, it is more likely to burn, rather than explode (like gasoline might).

Yep,
Freaked me out the first time I saw my supervisor flick his cigarette into a bucket of JP5 ...He just laughed at my reaction.

Is this the same aircraft?

If so it looks like this jet has done at least one belly landing prior to this one. . .

2008 Blue Angels Homecoming - FJ-4 Fury Belly Landing

Note the "44" on the fuselage below the cockpit.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
[Nope. Jet fuel.

Aviation gasoline has an octane rating. Jet fuel does not.

Thanks, V-Tail. For some reason, I remember reading a long time ago that jet fuel was around 100 octane. Thanks for clearing that up.



.

There are two kinds of pilots. There are those that Have made gear up landings and those that Will.

The amount of damage done when making a gear up landing goes far beyond what one sees on the outside. I’ll bet this aircraft will fly again, but not until after thousands and thousands of dollars for repairs and several weeks or even months of work. Keep in mind that parts for this aircraft are most likely no longer made and will have to be made from scratch. Expensive little mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by Cookster:
Is this the same aircraft?

If so it looks like this jet has done at least one belly landing prior to this one. . .

2008 Blue Angels Homecoming - FJ-4 Fury Belly Landing

Note the "44" on the fuselage below the cockpit.

A commentor said the plane had a runway overrun in 2011.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Nope. Jet fuel.

Aviation gasoline has an octane rating. Jet fuel does not.

Thanks, V-Tail. For some reason, I remember reading a long time ago that jet fuel was around 100 octane. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have had some very rudimentary training on aviation fuels; we certainly have some forum members who know a lot more about this than I do. TatorTodd is in the business, and SigMonkey dealt with this for much of his Air Force career.

I do know that jet fuel, much closer to kerosene or diesel fuel than to gasoline, will ignite and burn, but is not as likely to explode as gasoline is.

Jet fuel and diesel fuel are rated in cetane, rather than octane, and the meaning of these ratings (cetaine and octane) are not equivalent. Tator dude, where are you when we need an education?

Back in the early '80s when I was stationed in Alaska, we occasionally used JP4 in our Yukon stoves. At -40F it would take several minutes of holding a lighter on the wet burner plate to get the fuel to ignite. Gasoline would still ignite in a heartbeat.

JP4 is (was) basically 50/50 gasoline and kerosene.

The Navy used the same stuff with an anti-static additive (made it yellow).

Sometimes we found our jets had a case of the "yellows" when they came back from cross country or TDY at Naval Stations, (typically depuddle/draining fuel tanks).

It takes a bit more to get it to light, but you do not want to be on the "fighting" end of it when it does. It gets very hot and puts some BTUs in your face. And if the wind shifts, you better be able to hold your breath, shut your eyes very quickly and know how to retreat without smacking into stuff in your path.

Had a Jet Fuel Starter runaway from a massive fuel leak from a bad center-line standpipe that let go during a leak and transfer. It was the bad one. A few smaller incidents, one hydraulic line failure on a hot brake, and a couple of tailpipe fires.

But, generally, jet fuel was not a real problem with pucker factor, unless it was a big spill or on fire.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
[Nope. Jet fuel.

Aviation gasoline has an octane rating. Jet fuel does not.

Thanks, V-Tail. For some reason, I remember reading a long time ago that jet fuel was around 100 octane. Thanks for clearing that up.

Avgas is typically 100 octane. Basically high octane gas for piston aircraft. Not the same stuff as jet fuel as mentioned by vtail.

Isnt there a "gear down and locked" indicator light on the instrument panel?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Does aluminum generate sparks? The one time I ruined a grinding stone it didn't, but it clogged the stone right quick.

Be careful with that! Grinding wheels can actually explode if clogged with enough aluminum. The basic rule is only grind things that throw off sparks.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
He should have already lowered the flaps to land. Sounds fishy to me.

Same here. What I would bet on is that he meant to raise the flaps after landing and instead hit the gear lever. Not being familiar with this aircraft at all, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that a plane of this vintage doesn't have any protection against raising the gear on the ground. Modern aircraft have air/ground (squat) switches or something of the sort to prevent it. Flight training in retractable gear aircraft usually (should) include emphasis on not touching these controls until clear of the runway after landing and a positive ID has been made that you're moving the right one. Obviously there can be exceptions for certain situations (touch and go landings) or special aircraft designs.

I think the article is confusing.

Most likely, he landed with flaps and gear down. While on rollout, he accidentally raised the gear instead of flaps. Raising the flaps is a common technique to dump the lift and stick the tires. I don't do that for a variety of reasons. After clearing the runway is a much better time to clean up the plane using the checklist and verifying which handle you are moving.