I'm assuming we've all seen the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan where the troops storming the beach are shot underwater and with enough energy to kill them. It got me to thinking because I've heard credible sources argue both sides and remember lightly researching it a while ago but never really got a conclusive answer.

To avoid a bunch of replies saying "it depends on caliber, bullet coefficient, distance, velocity, etc." I'll keep it real simple: Could the Germans using their standard issued weapons and ammo shoot into the water from their positions and kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?

Mythbusters tackled something similar on one of their shows.

According to a summary I found online, the results were:

quote:

All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 m) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.

So it sounds like it's possible, but it's going to depend on a few different variables, including the velocity of the round as it strikes the water, the angle of the round striking the water, and the composition of the round itself (to resist disintegration).

Mythbusters tested this years ago and I think the result was that the bullets lost all of their velocity within just a few feet.

Mythbusters did a show on this year's ago. Wait I'll look it up.

I think Mythbusters did it?

I don't really recall the scene very well, so I'll take a WAG.

quote:

Could the Germans using their standard issued weapons and ammo shoot into the water from their positions and kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?

With rifles or rifle-caliber machine guns? IMO, not from the beach. They'd have to be in the water, right next to, almost on top of, the soldiers wading ashore. Rounds that fell short could skip off the water surface and hit a man's exposed torso and head. Obviously this is not under the water. Now, artillery fire might be a different story. But this sounds like it's made up for the movie.

If I remember, the guys getting shot underwater were busy drowning because of their equipment, so really... they were likely dead.

It's possible, but is it likely?

As far as people who died in water too deep to stand up in, how deep they were when they were shot, if they were shot, is an open question really, isn't it?

It wasn't just machinegun fire coming in either.

Iirc, "Hatcher's Notebook" said 6 feet of water to stop rifle bullets. 6 feet on diagonal is not very deep.

100 pounds of wet clothes, gear, rifle & ammo, wading thru water while being shot at sounds like Hell.

Where did mythbusters find a MG42 for their test?

I wonder if armor piercing, steel core and just plain lead ammo all perform about the same in water?

When they did live fire in the navy, we would shoot machine guns off the elevator and every tracer would bounce. You seem to need to be at a perfect angle to penetrate the water.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Where did mythbusters find a MG42 for their test?

I wonder if armor piercing, steel core and just plain lead ammo all perform about the same in water?

I'd assume there were plenty of 8mm rifles on that shore like the K98. Not quite equivalent to a 30-06, but close.

Movie physics, the kind that allow a bullet to curve toward its target by flicking one's wrist at the moment of firing, or Clint Eastwood firing a MP40 in each hand.

You can watch the YouTube video collaborations of Smarter Every Day and The Slow Mo Guys shooting rifles and pistols underwater in a pool and the bullets don't go very far. Interesting to watch if you haven't seen it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
I'll keep it real simple: Could the Germans using their standard issued weapons and ammo shoot into the water from their positions and kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?

Two words......

Theatrical
Licensing

quote:

kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?

If they were deep enough to avoid the bullets, it's because they were being drowned by their gear.

Bullets are going less than lethal speeds within just a few feet of travelling in water.

Go watch the mythbusters episode "bulletproof water". Very Interesting. They shot a 30-06 out of a Garand into a pool with a ballistic gel dummy. With a few feet after entering water the bullet not only was not lethal they would actually distentegrate

I've always had a problem with that Mythbusters episode.

The rifle bullets all broke up while the pistol bullets didn't, but quickly lost velocity.

They never took the time to find out at what velocity (range) it would take for the rifle bullets not to break up and penetrate the water.

What if the 30.06 had stayed together at say 1800fps? Same with the 50 cal., what if it had remained together at half or a third of its muzzle velocity? How much energy still exists for a projectile that big?

I didn't think they were thorough enough

Yep. MB shot the water from 3 feet away. What if the bullet had already traveled 1000 yards?

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
When they did live fire in the navy, we would shoot machine guns off the elevator and every tracer would bounce. You seem to need to be at a perfect angle to penetrate the water.

There is joke in there, something about squids qualifing by shoot off the deck and hitting the water...