quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
I might be wrong, but I suspect that tap-to-pay is more secure than magnetic strip readers.

You are not wrong, it is more secure. But, tap to pay still uses your actual credit card number inside the point of sale terminal.
 
Apple Pay is even more secure in this regard, as it creates a unique, one-time CC# for each transaction.
<snip>

Thanks Henry. After seeing your advice I began using my iPhone’s Apple Pay facility. I assume that there’s an Android equivalent. Correct?

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
I might be wrong, but I suspect that tap-to-pay is more secure than magnetic strip readers.

You are not wrong, it is more secure. But, tap to pay still uses your actual credit card number inside the point of sale terminal.
 
Apple Pay is even more secure in this regard, as it creates a unique, one-time CC# for each transaction.
<snip>

Thanks Henry. After seeing your advice I began using my iPhone’s Apple Pay facility. I assume that there’s an Android equivalent. Correct?

Yes, Google Wallet is the Android equivalent, and works the same way.

I received an email today from a bank, informing me that they will start sending out contact-less credit cards. The email indicated that one of the reasons, is security:

quote:

Each contactless transaction is secured with a unique one-time security code to help prevent fraud.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I received an email today from a bank, informing me that they will start sending out contact-less credit cards. The email indicated that one of the reasons, is security:

quote:

Each contactless transaction is secured with a unique one-time security code to help prevent fraud.

All of my credit cards are contactless cards and have been for a couple of years at least.

Because of this thread, I looked at the card readers in two places today, Big Lots and Habit Burger. Both had tap for payment and I did it in both places.

I had the feeling that every place I went had it and I was just confirming that because of this thread.

Yeah, that's how the Andromeda Strain is transmitted- credit card contact.

I am in the apple watch payment camp most of the time. I do shop at Home Depot where they don't support tap pay. But a previous comment about using Apple pay and getting the virtual card number each time and the comment about merchants not being able to track your purchases now makes me wonder if I would be able to return items without a receipt like I do at HD. Hd just scans your return item and your credit card and the terminal will pull the appropriate sales info from their data base. I guess if using the virtual card each time this won't work anymore??

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I received an email today from a bank, informing me that they will start sending out contact-less credit cards. The email indicated that one of the reasons, is security:

quote:

Each contactless transaction is secured with a unique one-time security code to help prevent fraud.

This is true, but, the CC number is the same CC number every time. The security they're talking about is card<->POS terminal commutations security using private/public key pair cryptography.

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter01:
I am in the apple watch payment camp most of the time. I do shop at Home Depot where they don't support tap pay. But a previous comment about using Apple pay and getting the virtual card number each time and the comment about merchants not being able to track your purchases now makes me wonder if I would be able to return items without a receipt like I do at HD. Hd just scans your return item and your credit card and the terminal will pull the appropriate sales info from their data base. I guess if using the virtual card each time this won't work anymore??

Nope. It still works. The handoff still happens at the bank and the bank knows. Think of it as end-to-end encryption with single-use keys where the merchant’s entire POS system is in the middle.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I received an email today from a bank, informing me that they will start sending out contact-less credit cards. The email indicated that one of the reasons, is security:

quote:

Each contactless transaction is secured with a unique one-time security code to help prevent fraud.

They don’t all do that. My bank sent out a contactless card a couple weeks ago. I’ve tried it twice, and the last 4 numbers on the receipt, match the last 4 numbers on the card. So it’s really no more secure than inserting the card.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
My flip phone does not offer payment options, and I like it that way.

flashguy

Yeah, I gave up the smartphone world a couple of years ago and have never gravitated to paying for stuff with my phone. And I feel fine. Even having a smartphone in the past, I didn't take with it me everywhere. Nowadays, one is expected to have one glued to the hip, and I think that is silly.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Yeah, that's how the Andromeda Strain is transmitted- credit card contact.

Well, Crichton said it started in Arizona so...

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
Nowadays, one is expected to have one glued to the hip, and I think that is silly.

Unless you have legitimate uses for it other than socializing on a regular basis, you're right.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
…getting the fuck out of my way.

And THAT…is paramount to anything and everything else!! Just sayin’…

GTFOOMW

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I received an email today from a bank, informing me that they will start sending out contact-less credit cards. The email indicated that one of the reasons, is security:

quote:

Each contactless transaction is secured with a unique one-time security code to help prevent fraud.

They don’t all do that. My bank sent out a contactless card a couple weeks ago. I’ve tried it twice, and the last 4 numbers on the receipt, match the last 4 numbers on the card. So it’s really no more secure than inserting the card.

If you have a card number printed on your card I'm not sure that's the same security you get with Apple Card. There's no number on the Apple Card, and no number printed on the receipt which is another reason I like it. Give it to a waiter to pay for a meal, and they disappear into their cave to run the card. Easy enough for them to copy down card numbers, security codes and expiration dates.

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I received an email today from a bank, informing me that they will start sending out contact-less credit cards. The email indicated that one of the reasons, is security:

quote:

Each contactless transaction is secured with a unique one-time security code to help prevent fraud.

They don’t all do that.

Yes, they do. It's part of the contactless NFC [1] communications protocol.

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:
My bank sent out a contactless card a couple weeks ago. I’ve tried it twice, and the last 4 numbers on the receipt, match the last 4 numbers on the card.

That's because V-Tail's bank's wording is vague, leading one to believe the card employs a mechanism similar to that of Apple Pay or Google Pay. It doesn't. As I explained: The security they're talking about is card<->POS [2] terminal communications security using private/public key pair cryptography.

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:
So it’s really no more secure than inserting the card.

No more or less secure than insert. Both are more secure than swipe.

EMV [3] card technology explained: Are contactless cards safe?

EMV readers are still susceptible to a kind of cloning called "card shimming." See: What Is an EMV Chip?. Apple and Google Pay are not.

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
If you have a card number printed on your card I'm not sure that's the same security you get with Apple Card. There's no number on the Apple Card, ...

The Apple Card is no different than any other modern card. You're conflating Apple Card with Apple Pay. Any card you use with Apple Pay works the same as any other card, including the Apple Card.

The Apple Card is just a fancy titanium bank card with "Apple" branding. (And I'm pretty sure I used to see the last four of my Apple Card number on receipts on the rare occasions I inserted/swiped it, too.)


[1] Near-Field Communications
[2] Point Of Sale
[3] Europay/Mastercard/Visa

^^^^^^^^
Thanks for that good info ensigmatic. Concise and comprehensive.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
If you have a card number printed on your card I'm not sure that's the same security you get with Apple Card. There's no number on the Apple Card, ...

The Apple Card is no different than any other modern card. You're conflating Apple Card with Apple Pay. Any card you use with Apple Pay works the same as any other card, including the Apple Card.

The Apple Card is just a fancy titanium bank card with "Apple" branding. (And I'm pretty sure I used to see the last four of my Apple Card number on receipts on the rare occasions I inserted/swiped it, too.)

I've never seen a number, even just last four, printed on the receipt, but I'll admit for small, retail transaction, say under $25, I don't take a receipt because within 30 seconds or so I have a texted receipt, and I'm not one that labors over matching receipts to the monthly statement. I just review the charges listed, and several times a month I look thru the transactions via Wallet. Bogus charges are easy to detect.

And the Apple Card is more than you assert. Other cards will work with Apple Pay, but all of the ones I've seen have numbers on them. There might be other cards that don't display numbers, but I'm not aware of them. My Cap1 Visa card does, as does my Discover card. Both are loaded into Apple pay and only used as backup. I haven't used them via Apple Pay in years.

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
And the Apple Card is more than you assert.

No, it is not. It's just a Goldman Sachs Mastercard with Apple's branding. And it's titanium, rather than plastic.

If you call "Apple" card services you get Goldman Sachs card services.

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
Other cards will work with Apple Pay, but all of the ones I've seen have numbers on them.

It merely doesn't have the card number printed or embossed on the card. There's still a dedicated NNNN-NNNN-NNNN-NNNN card number associated with the card. Otherwise you'd never be able to use it in POS terminals.

I don't have an Apple Card anymore, but, if you go into your Apple Wallet on your phone there's a way you can get to the card's card number, expiration date, and CCV [1]. This is necessary to enable the use of the card for on-line transactions.

[1] Card Verification Value

ensigmatic, now I have myself confused.

When I make a payment with Apple Pay, no matter whether I use my Apple Card, or a debit card, or a different credit card, the the last four digits on the receipt do not match the actual numbers on the card I used. If I look in my wallet, I can see the numbers that Apple uses, and they match the numbers on the receipt.

I guess I was expecting the same thing when I used the Tap to Pay. If I understand you, even though the card number on the receipt matches the card, that’s not the actual number that passes between the card and the reader.

Is that right?

NavyGuy, I’ve never seen a receipt that didn’t have the last four numbers on it. But I should admit I don’t look at every receipt.

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:
ensigmatic, now I have myself confused.

When I make a payment with Apple Pay, no matter whether I use my Apple Card, or a debit card, or a different credit card, the the last four digits on the receipt do not match the actual numbers on the card I used.

Again: Do not conflate the Apple Card with Apple Pay. They are two entirely separate and (mostly) unrelated things [1].

The reason you don't see the card number on a card when it's used via Apple Pay is, as previously mentioned, Apple Pay gives POS terminals a one-time-use virtual CC number for that one transaction--regardless of card used.

Apple Pay's servers, when the Apple Pay transaction is handed-off to them, create the association between the one-time-use virtual card number and the real card with which it's associated. This happens outside the context of the POS terminal. This is why a compromised POS terminal can't compromise a CC used via Apple Pay.

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:
If I look in my wallet, I can see the numbers that Apple uses, and they match the numbers on the receipt.

But they don't match those of the card used, correct?

ETA: Wait: Which wallet? Real, physical wallet or Apple Wallet? I'd assumed the latter because you wrote "the numbers Apple uses."

quote:

Originally posted by Muddflap:
I guess I was expecting the same thing when I used the Tap to Pay.

Tap-to-pay and insert-in-slot EMV chip technology are the same thing. I imagine those in-the-slot readers are probably using NFC internally.

[1] The main differences being you manage your Apple Card via your Apple Wallet, which you cannot do with non-Apple cards.