quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
A question from a non military member…

If your commanding officer puts their hands on you in a threatening manor could you justifiably defend your self? I realize that it’s probably not the smartest thing to do but just wondering…

I don't know, as it would naturally depend on the circumstances and people involved. I have my suspicions that, in my experience (23 years USAF), if an enlisted person struck an abusive officer, the enlisted person would get FRIED (as in, court-martialed for assault) whereas the officer MIGHT get off with a stern verbal warning.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I was in a situation once where I did my job, and an abusive A-hole of a Master Sergent (E-7) chewed me out because it inconvenienced him (I was a SSgt / E-5). He yelled and screamed and threw things at me, and threatened to call our Commander. I silently prayed that he WOULD call the Commander, as I was 200% in the right, and the Commander would have known it.

After he stomped off, a couple captains (who witnessed it all but did NOTHING, by the way ) complimented me for 'handling that well.' I asked them, "What choice did I have?" If I had responded in kind, I would have been written up for insubordination.

So, yeah, I have some experience with this kind of a-hole with delusions of god-hood. They are a pox on any unit.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:


- after yelling her expectations to her senior enlisted, they were “in shock”. IN SHOCK.

And these are the people that are tasked with the security of this nation.

She might have been an ass. She lied to her superiors. But, the official report shows a much deeper problem with the officers and staff NCOs on that warship. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure.

I didn't read it like that. I read it as they were shocked that the CC would do such a thing and treat them like that. The Senior NCOs in any unit are the backbone of the enlisted corps (you know, the ones who do MOST of the work). For a new commander to come in screaming and ranting like that would put nearly any competent Chief 'in shock.' As in, surprised and WTF!!???, not 'curl up and suck their thumb/incapable of action.'

Of course, we weren't there, and we naturally fill in the blanks with our own preconceived notions and biases. . .

Leadership is different at different levels. The methods used in a Marine infantry fireteam are going to look way different than a Bn CoC. I spent 21 years in the Marine Corps, 16 of that in 1St Mar Div in a combat unit. I would have a problem with a Company Commander or Bn Co coming in hot. I was a professional with extensive operational experience (multiple deployments) at every rank from Pvt to MSgt. I would be “shocked” to be treated like that. It is unprofessional and poor leadership. It does not instill trust and confidence in the abilities of the CO. I have worked with officers that went on to become GO’s and 2 Leftwich awards winners. None of them ever acted that way. I even received correction from Gen Mattis and I guarantee he did not holler at me.

I also have a considerable amount of sea time and the Chiefs mess is the heartbeat of the ship. Chiefs get things done! So when a CO losses the Chiefs they are going to have a difficult time across a wide array of things from developing jr officers to planning and implementing positive improvements.

I experienced toxic leadership in the Marine Corps as a PVT, a Cpl and finally MSgt. You spend so much time in those situations either trying to hide from it, trying to mitigate the worst of it for your subordinates that real training and preparation for mission becomes neglected at best or impossible at worst and often the rot on the inside is well hidden by those good SNC’s and Junior officers trying to do the best they can.