She probably deserved what she got but jljones isn't incorrect either. Read the report. One of the LT's after they got yelled at (in the military) said that they couldn't perform correctly for the next couple weeks. Here is the quote. “began yelling” at a junior officer for pointing out dolphins while on the bridge, an incident after which the officer said he “wasn’t doing very good for the next few weeks.”

I am not being a hardass but I can unequivocally say that if being yelled at causes you to not be "doing very good for the next few weeks" you are in the wrong fucking business. That cat needs to work in a cubicle with soft music playing in the background not on a fucking warship.

I can believe she is a problem CO, I can also believe the bridge officers of the Lake Erie are a bunch of pussies.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

I don't think this has anything to do with being tough guy with thick skin.

This is a combat vessel of the US Navy. Which by official report is manned by a group of officers and senior enlisted who-

-is charged with steering a warship. But “freak her out” after being smacked in the chest lightly and told to “pay attention” while driving. This shook her so bad that she thought about leaving her post. A US Navy officer in charge of driving a warship that is this fragile.

- after yelling her expectations to her senior enlisted, they were “in shock”. IN SHOCK.

And these are the people that are tasked with the security of this nation.

She might have been an ass. She lied to her superiors. But, the official report shows a much deeper problem with the officers and staff NCOs on that warship. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure.

The report aptly describes what we call “Tuesday” in a combat ready unit. Sorry it was so terrifying to this bunch.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
She might have been an ass. She lied to her superiors. But, the official report shows a much deeper problem with the officers and staff NCOs on that warship. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure.

The report aptly describes what we call “Tuesday” in a combat ready unit. Sorry it was so terrifying to this bunch.

I don't think you're wrong, however I don't think we're getting the complete picture as to the environment on the ship and her bearing. Like others have posted, it's one thing to have an absolute hard ass for a boss but, it's another to foster and cultivate an environment where everyone is walking on eggshells. The Navy has a lot of personal problems and leadership seems to be one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

feather merchant

?

Slacker, skate, freeloader, does bare minimum.

I can’t believe she actually through she could put her hands on people and grab collars and slap people and push them. In this day and age? She’s lucky she didn’t get laid out.

I got my ass chewed out in vivid and profane style any number of times in the USAF and later in the PD. I was able to carry on though. But no one put their hands on me.
Example of a real officer chewing out the troops:
One of my Security Police Commanders was a three war, been there type who was known for expecting quality performance. When bored, we would hold races with patrol vehicles (great fun) and someone ratted us out to the old man. He Ided our flight as the offenders and made a surprise visit to our guardmount. He launched into a profane rant and threatened that heads would roll if we raced again. We had a new LT that was assigned to our flight as our DO and he had been with us about a month, long enough to impress all of us that he was clueless. At the end of our group ass chewing, he turned to the LT and said " LT, go down to the motorpool and pick up my vehicle and bring it back here" The LT replied "Sir, I dont know where the motorpool is"! The old man leaned in close to the LT and said for all us to hear "I think a junior officer should know where the FUCKING motorpool is"! The old man then turned to me and said "Sgt, escort the LT to the motorpool, see that he gets my vehicle and ensure that can find his way back here"! I couldnt say "Yes, Sir" fast enough! The Commander had what we used to call "Command Presence" and by reputation and experience demonstrated leadership. I would have gladly followed the man anywhere!

I was a Crew Chief, and a flying Crew member. Things got real and words were said, sometimes at volumes to overcome aircraft running in afterburner, and in situations where seconds meant you lived, or your spouse and dependents cried while packing to return to CONUS.

But, the only time anyone put a hand on anyone was to pull them back from something they missed that would otherwise end badly.

Never for ego, and never to "prove strength".

I worked under a commander that was a "Mustang" and I had one troop that became a mustang.

The first was an insufferable SOB full of himself, and a joke, muttered under the troop's breath out of earshot.

The second, was a very successful officer, made Lt. Col in the USAF, got hos wings, flew a lot. Liked by almost everyone.


It's not how you play the game. Only that you're not an asshole.

Because, almost everyone wants to play the game, but nobody wants to be underneath the asshole. (Queue Sir Isaac Newton)

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by VMI 1991:
The officer you are referring to is Holly Ann Graf. No kidding, H.A.G.

THAT'S HER!
The Rise and Fall of a Female Captain Bligh


USS Lake Erie which has had a dubious history, one of her former captains kept a goat onboard, yes a farm animal, where the crew was responsible for feeding and cleaning up after it.

During the investigation, they interviewed her previous command, which was one of the DDGs. Turns out, thing were just as bad there. When she was CO of USS WINSTON S CHURCHILL (DDG-81) from APR 02 - FEB 04, things were just as bad. I was on the C6F staff and had transferred to, of all places, the US Army Command and Staff College while she was wreaking havoc aboard DDG-81.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
There are only so many people qualified to be any kind of military officer, let alone the commander of a billion-dollar warship. I hope we don't run out of them.

There are actually more than enough officers who qualify for Command at Sea. The issue becomes getting the right ones to Command.

Graf had already given clear indications that she was unfit for command during her previous command tour. But, she ended going to command an Aegis cruiser anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

I don't think this has anything to do with being tough guy with thick skin.

This is a combat vessel of the US Navy. Which by official report is manned by a group of officers and senior enlisted who-

-is charged with steering a warship. But “freak her out” after being smacked in the chest lightly and told to “pay attention” while driving. This shook her so bad that she thought about leaving her post. A US Navy officer in charge of driving a warship that is this fragile.

- after yelling her expectations to her senior enlisted, they were “in shock”. IN SHOCK.

And these are the people that are tasked with the security of this nation.

She might have been an ass. She lied to her superiors. But, the official report shows a much deeper problem with the officers and staff NCOs on that warship. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure.

The report aptly describes what we call “Tuesday” in a combat ready unit. Sorry it was so terrifying to this bunch.

Disagree.

I know some of the officers who served while she was CO. She crossed the line numerous times. I have had my but chewed plenty of times on the bridge, in CIC, in Engineering, but you do not ever put your hands on someone. If you get to level of commanding a ship and have not figured out to correct substandard performance without putting your hands on someone, then you are in the wrong line of work.

The officers who "have the Conn" on a warship are the most junior members of the wardroom, not the most experienced. Also, the articles you are reading are only presenting the examples of what she did that are appropriate for public consumption.

I spent 17 years as a Surface Warfare Officer. I stood watches on the bridge, in CIC, and in Engineering. Do we occasionally get some personnel who shouldn't be there? Of course, just like every branch. But there are a great deal more highly qualified and high performing sailors than there are no-loads. I saw them in action on many occasions.

(brief reference to the Army and BOB)

It sounds like every officer should strive to be Dick Winters and not Herbert Sobel.

We have a saying among my enlisted friends, “if they stay in long enough they’ll make Chief”.

We all know that also applies to the Officer ranks.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
We have a saying among my enlisted friends, “if they stay in long enough they’ll make Chief”.

We all know that also applies to the Officer ranks.

People do tend to, ummm, fail up.
Unfortunately.

quote:

Originally posted by VMI 1991:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by VMI 1991:
The officer you are referring to is Holly Ann Graf. No kidding, H.A.G.

THAT'S HER!
The Rise and Fall of a Female Captain Bligh


USS Lake Erie which has had a dubious history, one of her former captains kept a goat onboard, yes a farm animal, where the crew was responsible for feeding and cleaning up after it.

During the investigation, they interviewed her previous command, which was one of the DDGs. Turns out, thing were just as bad there. When she was CO of USS WINSTON S CHURCHILL (DDG-81) from APR 02 - FEB 04, things were just as bad. I was on the C6F staff and had transferred to, of all places, the US Army Command and Staff College while she was wreaking havoc aboard DDG-81.

Any belief that she was 'shielded' because she came from a ranking Navy family, USNA Grad, her sister an admiral and her father himself a captain?

Not everyone can be a good leader even if they were a good soldier

Sounds to me like she had a lot of issues administering authority through her career.

Yet, she kept advancing up the ladder into higher positions of authority. Seems counter intuitive to me.

I wonder if her rise through the ranks regardless of what we used to call 'career limiting moves' and something to do with her gender. If that is true, it is even more tragic.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by VMI 1991:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by VMI 1991:
The officer you are referring to is Holly Ann Graf. No kidding, H.A.G.

THAT'S HER!
The Rise and Fall of a Female Captain Bligh


USS Lake Erie which has had a dubious history, one of her former captains kept a goat onboard, yes a farm animal, where the crew was responsible for feeding and cleaning up after it.

During the investigation, they interviewed her previous command, which was one of the DDGs. Turns out, thing were just as bad there. When she was CO of USS WINSTON S CHURCHILL (DDG-81) from APR 02 - FEB 04, things were just as bad. I was on the C6F staff and had transferred to, of all places, the US Army Command and Staff College while she was wreaking havoc aboard DDG-81.

Any belief that she was 'shielded' because she came from a ranking Navy family, USNA Grad, her sister an admiral and her father himself a captain?

Perish the thought...

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
We have a saying among my enlisted friends, “if they stay in long enough they’ll make Chief”.

We all know that also applies to the Officer ranks.

I would tend to disagree.

In the Surface Warfare Community, if you don't select for the next level on a ship, you do not get promoted.

So, If you are a department head, OPS, WEPS/CSO, CHENG, and don't screen for XO, you will not make CDR. If you do not get command of a ship as a CDR and successfully complete that tour, you will not make CAPT. So, there are built in limits. But, people like Graf make it all the way to Major Command, but numerous other officers who aren't raging egomaniacs with power, control, and anger management issues will not go to command.

A question from a non military member…

If your commanding officer puts their hands on you in a threatening manor could you justifiably defend your self? I realize that it’s probably not the smartest thing to do but just wondering…

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:


- after yelling her expectations to her senior enlisted, they were “in shock”. IN SHOCK.

And these are the people that are tasked with the security of this nation.

She might have been an ass. She lied to her superiors. But, the official report shows a much deeper problem with the officers and staff NCOs on that warship. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure.

I didn't read it like that. I read it as they were shocked that the CC would do such a thing and treat them like that. The Senior NCOs in any unit are the backbone of the enlisted corps (you know, the ones who do MOST of the work). For a new commander to come in screaming and ranting like that would put nearly any competent Chief 'in shock.' As in, surprised and WTF!!???, not 'curl up and suck their thumb/incapable of action.'

Of course, we weren't there, and we naturally fill in the blanks with our own preconceived notions and biases. . .