quote:

"Gun violence," has nothing to do with guns, and is a complex socioeconomic issue. Neither party is set up to actually solve the problems that are the root of gun violence. What is the root? In essence, poverty.

I don't think that's quite right.

There are places that are very poor, by Massachusetts standards, but have very little "gun violence," even where almost everyone has a gun. Rural areas, like West Virginia, that have low income levels.

Although the two are often linked, I think it has more to do with dependency than just poverty. In urban areas poor people are more likely to depend on government than on family and a faith community. I think that it's dependency that makes people feel worthless. There are plenty of poor people who are NOT dependent on government. They may not even consider themselves poor. They may not have luxury, but they support themselves as best they can.

I think freedom is more than just doing whatever you want all the time. Freedom means being responsible enough to provide for yourself. If you are dependent, you are not free.

quote:

Who'd like some Communism with a side of Sharia Law? Not me.

Nor I. I think we differ on where evil exists as a source, but we have a similar solution. That day by day decision to do right is a moral code. Not all in humanity share it though. I think we understand that to win against evil, whether it be in the heart of man or a single intelligent source influencing those of us not disciplined by a moral code, there must be a greater dissemination and acceptance of high moral codes in society to combat the creep to captivity. It needs to come from traditional origins like proper two parent families actively working to raise the next generations, spiritual instruction where appropriate and social pressure to refine the natural selfish man into a selfless individual. As you say, not insurmountable, but it would be and exercise in patience and intergenerational cooperation if freedom is to remain paramount.

I think if you follow the money, you would have to look everywhere, not just in the U.S.

Gun control or elimination has been going on for a long, long time.

It just keeps spreading. You can blame guys like Bloomberg or Soros indeed, but it goes far beyond those two.

What is shocking is the fact that people in this country cannot see how it does nothing to solve the problem of gun violence, but then that never was the "real" reason it was imposed.

^^^ FWIW, there's no reason to restrict the definition of "bono" to "money". People tend to want all kinds of things.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

Lets also keep in mind that we have an all volunteer military. While those folks come from every state and have diverse backgrounds, the left freely takes a shit on them as backwards hicks who can't get any other employment. Or they're drunk on national pride. They'll support the troops but not the war, but discriminate against veterans.

At the same time, they expect police officers to "serve and protect," meanwhile holding them in disdain, as another class of people motivated by national pride, a thirst for power, or just too dumb to get a real job.

Isn't it interesting that in the "gun control" debate, absolute trust is put in the abilities of The State to keep us safe and mete out violence on our behalf? Meanwhile, cops only shoot dogs and black men in the back, and our military is full of blood thirsty morons?

That is what I find astounding as well. The Left says all Police are racist murders, but only want them to have weapons??? They are worried that Trump is the next Hitler but only the Military needs military weapons?

WTF?

Then again the mistake is to apply logic to their reasoning, methinks.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:

quote:

Who'd like some Communism with a side of Sharia Law? Not me.

Nor I. I think we differ on where evil exists as a source, but we have a similar solution. That day by day decision to do right is a moral code. Not all in humanity share it....there must be a greater dissemination and acceptance of high moral codes in society to combat the creep to captivity. It needs to come from traditional origins like proper two parent families actively working to raise the next generations, spiritual instruction where appropriate and social pressure to refine the natural selfish man into a selfless individual. As you say, not insurmountable, but it would be and exercise in patience and intergenerational cooperation if freedom is to remain paramount.

Maybe a summary, too many in society are materialistic, selfish, and dishonest. To me such applies to the poor as well as to the rich. Many of the rich want to keep their elitist and swanky lifestyle, some have compassion for the less fortunate, let's help them, but with someone else's money. And many of the less fortunate are in their condition because of the poor choices they continue to make. And many feel it their right to continue in those poor choices and force someone else to pay. How do you provide a safety net without it becoming a hammock?

I think having a constant higher moral authority (guiding north star principles) and solid family values is the start. Apply such with sacrifice and patience.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

Lets also keep in mind that we have an all volunteer military. While those folks come from every state and have diverse backgrounds, the left freely takes a shit on them as backwards hicks who can't get any other employment. ...

I have a good friend who resigned from his solid employment to join the military after 9-11, was a combat medic in Iraq. He returned, continued in the reserves, and is now in successful middle management of one of the top firms in the nation.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:

quote:

Who'd like some Communism with a side of Sharia Law? Not me.

Nor I. I think we differ on where evil exists as a source, but we have a similar solution. That day by day decision to do right is a moral code. Not all in humanity share it....there must be a greater dissemination and acceptance of high moral codes in society to combat the creep to captivity. It needs to come from traditional origins like proper two parent families actively working to raise the next generations, spiritual instruction where appropriate and social pressure to refine the natural selfish man into a selfless individual. As you say, not insurmountable, but it would be and exercise in patience and intergenerational cooperation if freedom is to remain paramount.

Maybe a summary, too many in society are materialistic, selfish, and dishonest. To me such applies to the poor as well as to the rich. Many of the rich want to keep their elitist and swanky lifestyle, some have compassion for the less fortunate, let's help them, but with someone else's money. And many of the less fortunate are in their condition because of the poor choices they continue to make. And many feel it their right to continue in those poor choices and force someone else to pay. How do you provide a safety net without it becoming a hammock?

I think having a constant higher moral authority (guiding north star principles) and solid family values is the start. Apply such with sacrifice and patience.

I agree. Some of the most avaricious, selfish people I know are poor. Of course not everyone who is poor is so because of poor choices. Sometimes poor just happens. What distinguishes whether one stays poor or not is a sound plan and discipline. Those two things do not happen if the safety net becomes a hammock. I think the only way to guarantee the hammock never materializes is to require something for something. Support should come with accountability and course correction. It should be finite. It should come in exchange for effort from the recipient. Bad habits should decrease support. Bad behaviors should decrease support. Bad attitude should decrease support. Illegal alien status should eliminate support. Last but not least, if a citizen is receiving support, he should lose his right to vote until he is off public support lest he be persuaded to use his vote for greater access to tax payer funds. The solution to all of this is no public welfare system......hey, I can dream!