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Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

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Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

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2- This second one was even weirder: Shooting in complete darkness at 5 yards. No flashlights. WTF?

When you say "complete darkness", do you mean, as if you were inside a closet or a freezer without any illumination?

Typical indoor range. Each person in his/her lane. Targets ~5 yards away. All lights turned off (yes, complete darkness). Instructor gave command to shoot. I was just outside (behind the glass) watching.

So you were in darkness also...or was there light coming through the windows from where you were viewing?

I'm only asking because complete darkness (complete lack of light) is fairly rare at an indoor range. I seldom encountered it in the real world either...most places have windows and urban settings are seldom devoid of some light

No, the lobby is lighted normally. But, I can tell you this. Standing right there at the glass, I could see the officers, but not their targets. Maybe the officers could, but I couldn't.
Also, last week, when I was in the middle of shooting, someone accidentally leaned against the light switch inside the shooting area. It went dark, and I couldn't see anything beyond the bench.

Commenting as a non-LEO. Of the several classes I've taken, one was a Home Defense class, and the shooting portion of the class was conducted in an indoor range with 10 lanes and ALL range lights turned off. There were no windows to the outside, and the indoor observation windows to the lounge and retail area were completely covered with cardboard and prevented all light from entering the range. No hand-held or WML lights were used or taught in the class. The only light in the 25 yard range was from the Emergency Exit door light. The instructor chose two of the lanes farthest from the Emergency Door light to do all the shooting and had built 'barricades' of cardboard which we were to shoot from but which also further prevented the ambient light from reaching the lanes or the target, set 7 yards back from the firing line. The students were instructed to run in place for several minutes (having worked the night before, had almost no sleep, and no prior stretching I started to experience cramps and physical fatigue) then, on command we were forced to run to the loading bench and load magazines, and then again on command run to the firing line and fire both two-handed and one-handed evolutions from behind the cardboard barriers...the entire time the instructor was shouting "Go, Go, Go, hurry up, move move" while clapping loudly or banging his fist on the loading table.

At 7 yards the target was dim, but visible. I used a SIG with standard Von Stagenhaven factory contrast sights, and while I made an attempt to align the sights, I was primarily focused and dependent on the white dot of my front sight, which was dimly visible.

As an aside, on one of the evolutions, one of the other students and I were up, and with the instructor yelling at us to "go", and pushing us to move fast we ran from the far end of the shooting line to one of the two class lanes. When I reached the lane I was to shoot from I noticed that the instructor never set a target for me. I hesitated for a second, considering whether to point this out to the instructor, but as he continued to shout at us to hurry up I decided to fire at the only target visible to me, the other student's target. After firing, the instructor noticed his mistake and asked me what I was shooting at...I pointed at the other target. He checked it and all rounds from both students landed center of mass. The instructor agreed that the target was well ventilated.

Shooting a few rounds under adverse conditions won’t make anyone an adverse conditions shooting expert. The most important purpose of shooting under adverse conditions once a year, or even once a quarter, is to demonstrate to the shooters what they don’t know, and to motivate the serious shooting student to teach himself what he needs to know about the craft.

I conduct my low light qualification sessions in the dead of winter to add the complication of cold and snow. Dropping a full magazine when trying to reload by feel in the dark when one’s hands have been exposed to 10 degree temperatures for an hour and then trying to clear the ice away doesn’t make anyone more sure-fingered or dexterous. What it does is emphasize the importance of being careful when operating under such conditions.

To the extent that rare adverse condition sessions do teach useful lessons by themselves, in my experience it’s to dispel myths and to give shooters confidence about unknowns. For example, most gun owners have never used their weapons in defensive training situations under low light conditions and therefore have little understanding of the methods and techniques involved. That’s why many of them convince themselves that night sights are of little or no value when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.