https://www.truckinginfo.com/1...c_id=3914G4595089E5H

It would seem like it could tow more?


It started as a rendering — an idea of an all-electric, full-size pickup truck designed specifically for fleets and commercial users — that turned into a steady stream of preorder announcements and supplier integrations. Then prototypes appeared in the wild, onstage at the official factory launch, and even on the lawn of the White House.

In terms of being able to truly kick the tires and test drive Lordstown Motor’s electric Endurance, we’re not there yet — but we’re tantalizingly closer. Bobit fleet editors recently connected with Lordstown Motors executives at the company’s new facility in Irvine, Calif., for a company update and to get up close and personal with the Endurance Alpha truck.

Jeff Kenny, director of corporate sales and strategy; Brittney Burns, director of marketing; Michael Stafford, sales director for the Western region; and Luke Tatman, west coast sales representative, were on hand.

Owing to the Alpha truck’s job as a test mule, the Lordstown group stressed that this version is hand-built and specifically lacks common functions, while the fit and finish are not indicative of the final product. However, the overall design and dimensions will carry over to the production vehicle, Kenny said.

We got a chance to climb through the Alpha truck and take video. Yet as the truck is not yet street legal, and owing to COVID-19, we declined a minimal drive around the parking lot.

Company and Fleet Updates
The company is still on track to begin deliveries in mid-September. This new target was iterated last October, an update from an expected launch in January 2021. Full production will ramp up in 2022. While Lordstown’s initial goal was 20,000 units in its first 12 months of assembly, the company is anticipating it will exceed that target, Kenny said.

Lordstown now counts 100,000 preorders from commercial customers to date, which does not account for interest from government and military fleets that are not in position to place preorders. With an average of 600 units per fleet, initial orders include ServPro (1,200 units), Clean Fuels Ohio (250), and Ohio-based utility company First Energy, among others.

Earlier this month, Mike Albert Fleet Solutions announced an agreement with Lordstown for delivery of “a significant quantity” of pickups for its clients. This week, Merchants Fleet announced a partnership with Lordstown for the fleet management company’s new electrification initiative.

With the fleet preorders, Lordstown is foregoing retail sales for the foreseeable future. Sold orders won’t flow through a traditional dealer base, though the exact process of getting them to fleets is “a work in progress,” Kenny said, noting the varying automotive sales and franchise laws by state.

ARI, Holman Enterprises’ fleet management division, will provide fleet management services and vehicle supply chain logistics for Endurance customers. Holman’s Auto Truck Group will provide specialized equipment and upfits.

The rollout of trucks to fulfill those preorders won’t be defined by when those orders were made, Kenny said. Rather, Lordstown is looking holistically to work with customers to deploy trucks in smaller batches where they can be adequately serviced.

The Irvine facility, Lordstown’s first outside Ohio, will house a service center for commercial customers as well as space for engineers building Endurance’s infotainment center.

Lordstown has struck a deal with Camping World to use its 170 U.S. service and collision centers with specifically trained technicians on hand for the Endurance. That agreement also entails mobile servicing.

Inside the Endurance
The Lordstown Endurance is a full-size, all-electric pickup with an anticipated range of 250 miles, a tow rating of 7,500 lbs., and the equivalent of 600 hp. Endurance will be priced at $52,5000 before the $7,500 federal rebate.

This Alpha truck has already gone through thousands of miles of testing, according to Kenny. The company has moved past Alpha stage and is now producing Beta prototypes for further validations, which may include fleet customers.

Lordstown has a parts supply agreement with General Motors, and as a rough guide, the truck’s dimensions are “Chevy Silverado inspired.” This is perhaps in deference to its GM factory roots in Lordstown, Ohio, though Endurance shares no design elements with the Silverado. The Alpha, like the initial sales version, is a crew cab configuration with a 5-ft., 6-in. bed.

The Endurance is all truck — if the impressive capabilities come to fruition in the real world — but with a genre-bending design. Thankfully, the rear of the truck has built-in bed steps on the left and right of a conventional tailgate. Yet overall, the truck won’t be confused with any pickup model on the road today.

Without a radiator, the truck’s flat, opaque nose forces us to rethink the “horns on my Silverado grill,” as Big & Rich sang. Endurance’s thin, wraparound front and rear lights continue into black accent trim that feel less truck and more sportscar inspired. Our walkthrough was street-visible, and one pickup driver called out histrionically on the truck. We don’t know what he said, but it’s the emotion that counts.

Inside, Kenny noted the truck’s instrument cluster and infotainment center will be usurped by Lordstown’s proprietary system for production. A large storage compartment and cupholders occupy the space between the driver and front passenger. Gears are shifted by a rotary knob on the storage configuration. The backseat seemed slightly smaller than a Ford F-150 SuperCrew, though the seating is ample for a crew of four.

Without an internal combustion engine, the truck will provide extra storage under the hood (though the Alpha hood didn’t open). The charging port will move from near the driver’s front quarter panel to the truck front for production. The truck bed has a 110-v outlet to power tools.

Copper-colored hubcaps draw attention to the electric “hub motors,” one at each wheel. This alleviates the need for wheel axles and a transmission, and it allows the drivetrain to function with only four moving parts.

Kenny said the independent motors will improve driving characteristics with more torque and a tighter turning radius. By how much? Will the lack of moving parts turn technicians into the Maytag repairman? We’ll have to wait closer to production launch to find out.

Watch our exclusive 360-degree truck reveal video below.

quote:

Copper-colored hubcaps draw attention to the electric “hub motors,” one at each wheel. This alleviates the need for wheel axles and a transmission, and it allows the drivetrain to function with only four moving parts.

With a motor at or near each wheel and by varying the voltage/current, you can have AWD with no transmission or differential. Electric motors make most or all of their torque from the moment they start to turn. At least some of the braking could be done with the motors as well. I have said this for some time. The trick is making all the tech reliable for 100,000 or more (preferably a lot more) miles. And at an affordable price. $52K is a non-starter for a lot of people, including myself.

With the "wheel hub motors", I'd imagine the unsprung weight is pretty high, and the suspension may be limiting what it can carry.

Umm, not that I care much about towing but if my 300 horse 6 cylinder F-150 had the "tow package" it could tow over 10K. 7,500 is a joke! Not to mention, how far would it get under load? 100 miles?

The best towing vehicles on the planet are electric (trains) so what is this thing's excuse?

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
The best towing vehicles on the planet are electric (trains) so what is this thing's excuse?

Power supply. Trains are either giant diesel generators, or direct feed from external supply.

The truck is a battery, and is limited by the current technology of them.

^^^^
I get that in terms of range, but a 600hp worth of electric motors with instant torque? Why can't it tow at least 2 tons more even if for a limited distance?

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
^^^^
I get that in terms of range, but a 600hp worth of electric motors with instant torque? Why can't it tow at least 2 tons more even if for a limited distance?

Tow rating is as much about what you can stop as it is about what you can get moving. The other conventional trucks mentioned can pull more than 10,000 pounds too....

The limiting factor for towing isn't power output. It's the chassis's ability to maintain control of the load, especially under hard breaking.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
And at an affordable price. $52K is a non-starter for a lot of people, including myself.

Hmmm, let's see. I'm a fleet manager who needs 100 new trucks this year. I can go to Ford and buy F series trucks for ~$40k a piece and know exactly what I'm getting, or pop $53k (my bet is the final price will be higher) for each of these which contrary to that fluff piece and its glowing admiration for the vehicle, has zero service history in the field. So pay a $130k premium for a complete unknown...I think not.

Until these trucks get years and thousands of miles of use on them to prove their worth, I just don't see them penetrating much of the commercial truck market.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
The best towing vehicles on the planet are electric (trains) so what is this thing's excuse?

'Kinda' electric.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
The limiting factor for towing isn't power output. It's the chassis's ability to maintain control of the load, especially under hard breaking.

Hence the stupid commercials where normal pickups tow airliners and trains and stuff.

Ability to make something heavy move has very little to do with towing ratings.

Remember these trucks will be hauling more than a ton of battery (maybe 2). A Tesla S weights almost 5000 lbs, so this truck is going to be pushing 4 tons empty, maybe more. That subtracts from the towing load and as others have said changes the chassis dynamics. Also the 250 mile range will drop dramatically with towing.

There is a reason this isn't coming directly from a major carmaker...

The only way these trucks are going to be financially responsible for a fleet manager is if their Total Cost of Ownership over the expected lifespan of the vehicle. In some parts of the country where fuel costs are high and electrical rates are low this may work. Keep in mind the PR bonus form all the advertising each company will inevitably do...

As with anything new and shiny there will be early adopters that will help lower the costs for the masses later on. Once the cost per mile can be proven in the real world to be less than ICE vehicles EV’s will take off but for the masses like me I doubt they will ever be our primary vehicle until the range can be significantly improved.

The real applications that are getting serious commercial production are city buses.

Zero emissions for cities with smog problems, standard routes, opportunity charging along the route, low load (passengers only no cargo).

We had electric trolleys a long time ago, they were displaced by diesel buses. Now we are going back to electric but with batteries...

Electric Trolleys are still going strong in Boston.

There is tracked that look like trains and trackless that look like buses.

The trackless have been working since at least the fifties. The trackless are interesting as they are powered by overhead wires. The trackless trolleys have spring loaded antenna looking connection that ride against the overhead wires. If the driver messes up, they have to get out and pull on the wire springs to get them riding against the overhead wires.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
The real applications that are getting serious commercial production are city buses.

Zero emissions for cities with smog problems, standard routes, opportunity charging along the route, low load (passengers only no cargo).

We had electric trolleys a long time ago, they were displaced by diesel buses. Now we are going back to electric but with batteries...

Also, last mile delivery vehicles (Amazon Trucks, UPS, etc). Their use scenario is just about perfect for an electric vehicle. Short daily range in a limited geographic area. Lots of starts and stops. Low load floor.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Zero emissions for cities with smog problems...

Please stop. EV's are not 'zero' emission. I'll accept 'reduced' emissions, which is accurate. No EV moves without electricity, the majority of which is still produced via fossil fuels, and EV's also have an emissions contribution by virtue of their construction. We have NG buses here that are also low emissions, which IMO make far more sense than anything EV (at least at this point in time).

I wonder how they are making the hub-motors work (or more specifically, work well). The biggest issue with hub motors has been no transmission to adapt motor RPM from from wheel RPM. Think about your engine running in 1st gear on the interstate....
From the PR material on the lordstown website, it doesn't look like there's any type of transmission. An electric motor isn't at it's most efficient at high RPM, to say the least. They have to be using some type of VFD/pulsing that may or may not be the next big thing (or next big flop). This interests me as in the late 90s, my high-school brain was trying to work out a hydrostatic hub motor to replace the piece of shit drivetrain in a high boy sprayer. Hydrostats in general have the same issues - great at low speed, fall off at high RPM vs traditional transmission/differential setups.

I would bet the towing rating is limited by braking. There's a lot of spinning mass vs conventional drivetrain. I would also bet they are trying for as light as possible for mileage, which will reduce the overall amount of weight it can tow safely. Towing ratings are PR/marketing bullshit, even more than HP numbers.