Watch the televised car auctions and see MB and other European luxury cars go for a fraction of what they originally sold for a few years early.

Guess it's a crapshoot if they were maintained and will give years of service. I still buy american. the worst two cars I had was a 80's Datsun PU and a 2003 Passatt The VW had problem after problem. the car never saw much over 50K when I finally dumped it. The car was just poorly designed as far as the engine. Beyond that, something was always failing in it.

Same feedback from me (CPO 5th Gen E-92 Coupe):
Positives:
o #1 was what I would call "Balance" the seemingly perfect 50/50 distribution of weight, steering and cornering. Not too firm, not too soft ride.
o If you value how a car drives, everything just felt right.
o For what you get a lot-of value. The straight-6, brakes, suspension set-up and interior/seats.
o Almost scary how well it stuck to the road.
o Customer service is very good, I am spoiled after a few years of BMW treatment.

Neutral to me but worth a mention:
o Looks are subjective, I loved it, not too flashy, but modern. How they would stand up after 7-10 years is your call.
o Insurance was not bad at all. My agent said it was pure statistics, people who buy these are responsible drivers.
o The driver interface electronics (Radio etc) did seem a year or three behind the competition.
o Fear of notoriously high repairs.
o People treat you differently when you drive a BMW. Even if they make the same salary and lay out the same cash for say a mustang or nice truck. Sometimes felt like I was assumed to be a snob/yuppie/rich-kid. Don't say a work about the cost of ownership, no-one wants to hear it.
o I drive a-lot of highway miles, the overall per mile cost was just too high to comfortably sustain.

Negatives:
o Routine maintenance was very high. Wear and tear replacement parts (Tires, bulbs, struts, wheels) 50-100% higher than Toyotas or similar vehicles I've owned.
o Who knows how they contribute to the overall feel and performance of the car but the run-flats and sport wheel have a very high operating cost. In 3yrs/50k I probably spent $0.08 cents a mile for just wheels and tires (And I drive gently most of the time avoiding road hazards like the plague).
oo At best, the tires lasted 24k. Only two choices and cost ~$375 each. Unrepairable and got sidewall damage easily.
oo 17" aluminum wheels (Not even the super low profile off-set performance package wheels)... They are VERY fragile and expensive ($450-500). Look at a small pot-hole and they were done. Changing tire, 50% chance they would split.
o Resale value is high at first then drops like a stone.

My $0.02:
o LEASE, do not buy a low mileage, current generation model.
o Eliminate the risk and almost inevitable crazy high cost of ownership. Get the best, white-glove/platinum/double-diamond coverage and maintenance plan possible. Add on windshield, head-light, wheel and tire protection plans. (Those 4 things are wear and tear and NOT covered by CPO and all crazy expensive). BMW dealer service is top-notch, it would feel great if visits costs zero. Overall, I paid at least $0.15/mile just in routine maint, tires wheels and a few minor repairs. I was lucky not to have to buy a $800 windshield, $700 headlight or $1,600 struts.

Yes, you can do the MX on BMWs. I did oil changes, tires, and some other odd tasks.

Where it get frustrating is the electronic or deep mechanical issues that crop up once they get 10+ years old.

On my German made E90 - I had 3 windows do tits up, rack and pinion steering boot leak, and the A/C overheat. Then there was the brake piston issues and throttle body that went belly up.

When they work, they are fun as hell. When they are broke and out of warranty, they suck ballz.

Similar age Hondas are still going strong with minimal issues.

quote:

Almost scary how well it stuck to the road.

Yes, many fond memories of the bubba in a muscle car who were unable to hack the interstate 270 degree cloverleaf at even moderate speeds.

Passing them on the outside while doing that was even better.

Of course they'd come tearing past you 1/2 mile after it ended, when you weren't even trying anymore. Sorry bro, you lost.

Personally I drive Japanese cars just because they run forever, but I have had a couple buddies who own the fancy bmw cars. One of them owns a BMW 650 and it’s a beautiful car and super fancy, but there are SO many electronics running every aspect of that car and he has spent a lot of money on different parts, sensors, and labor on a car that has like 60k miles on it. Another aquantaince that owns a fairly near 3 series and he says he doesn’t leave the dealership without a $1500+ bill on it, which as stated before a $1500 bill on a Toyota or Honda is a pretty major fix.

BMW makes some beautiful vehicles and if I was the type to just lease a new car every 3 years I might consider one, but I would never want to own it.

I too recently (Dec 2016) bought a used RX 350. It was in awesome shape and I got a good deal on it. I thought the AFS system the steered the headlights with the vehicle was pretty cool, until I started thinking "What if it fails on a turn and the lights are pointing away from center ?" Its not like you can get away with not to have that fixed immediately. That feature has been off ever since.

Was in the market for another car recently and was looking at a used ES 350 and just started thinking about whether I need two cars that require 91 octane fuel and cost a shit ton of $$ to repair (especially after the nightmare of fixing the HID headlights in my daughters 2004 Acura TL two years ago).

I found a low mileage 2015 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 and brought it this past week.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
I recently bought a used Lexus RX350 after researching known problems. I thought I did well researching and was familiar with all the common problems but after buying have found out how expensive repairs can be. The stupid headlights which turn with the steering wheel can be $5000 to repair if they fail. There are some timing cover leaks that cost a few grand to fix. I’m regretting buying it now due to possible problems but I’m stuck with it so I’ll hope mine lives up to the reliability they are known for.
I bought an Accord brand new in 2008. It was a great car but developed a rear main seal leak right after I spent $1500 on a water pump, belt and timing belt replacement. I had planned on keeping it but got mad over the leak since it would cost over a grand to fix right after dumping all that money into the other maintenance. I like to do things myself and the more complex cars get the more I want to revert to an old school car that I can work on. For the cost of repairs on some ne cars I can buy an entire engine for an old school ride. Yes, newer cars are safer but I’ve never been in a car wreck since I was 16 so I’m not too concerned about that at this point in my life.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:

quote:

Originally posted by g8rforester:
I know I should AVOID the BMW E46 3-series as if each of them were coated with Ebola from the factory.

That's what I had and I thought it was amazing. It handled superbly. What complaints had you heard?

Window regulators, sunroof leaks into the ECM causing a host of problems, sunroof leaks onto the driver's floor, sensors dying causing gremlins, cooling system leaks, transmission issues, oil burning, etc. All these are arguably fixable, certainly not insurmountable. But, even if you get those fixed, there's the "little" issue of a developing a crack in the rear subframe, which basically turns the car into scrap metal.

It's really just that last one that has me totally put off them.

Personally, I'm a fan of Japanese vehicles myself though we do have a Kia (Korean) and a Honda. Honda is a 2003 with 173k on it. Still runs great and I'll drive it until it won't drive anymore.

Next vehicle will most likely be a Honda or Toyota. I've had a fun car, 2003 Corvette Z06, and I might have that bug out of my system already. These days I'm more concerned with mileage and practicality than about fun.

I've never owned a European car and never will for the reasons you guys have mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by goose5:.... used Mercedes ....

The last 2 years my buddy had a Mercedes, bought used and low mileage, he dropped about $10k a year in repairs. And repairs he had to make to sell it.

And this guy is not hard a cars, his other car is a 1999 2d Tahoe with close to 300K on the odometer, and looks brand new.

From Consumer Reports, August 2017

BMW = Break My Wallet
Audi = All ur dollars in

I had a used BMW in Germany...after a year, I needed new shocks...1700 euro (2011 dollars, about $3200). Dropped that car quickly...took the $3200 (plus another $1800) and put it into a 2004 Jeep Liberty I bought from another servicemember...my son still drives it.

Lesson learned--if you're gonna buy BMW/Mercedes/Volvo/etc., get the inclusive service package--put still know parts are wicked expensive.

I second buying a Toyota (we have a 2004 Sienna we got in 2006)....we've put 150,000 miles on it ourselves (bought with 48K miles)...and it still keeps running!

This graph answers my next question. How about the Chevy, Ford, and GMC compact SUV's? Seems like they compete quite well. My wife's boss owns a Lexus. She had a cracked wind shield. 2000 dollars to replace.

quote:

Originally posted by goose5:
This graph answers my next question. How about the Chevy, Ford, and GMC compact SUV's? Seems like they compete quite well. My wife's boss owns a Lexus. She had a cracked wind shield. 2000 dollars to replace.

What's the difference between Lexus glass and Toyota glass? WTH?

That sounds like a Lexus tax there where you're charged more because it's for a Lexus and they presume you can pay more.

I think she has some fancy heads up display that is projected on the glass and some other sensors.

My Subaru's head gaskets are leaking again, I had them replaced at 80k miles, the car only has 160k miles now.... I'm not fixing it. I will never buy a Subaru again.
My BMW's have 226k (E46), and 140k (E90), no catastrophic failures.
I pay it gladly.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:

quote:

Originally posted by g8rforester:
I know I should AVOID the BMW E46 3-series as if each of them were coated with Ebola from the factory.

That's what I had and I thought it was amazing. It handled superbly. What complaints had you heard?

The E46 is probably the best 3 series ever. I'll never sell my E46. I'm giving my E90 to my brother, since his Toyota is literally falling apart. His wifes Toyota is rusting away.

Older German cars, if properly maintained, are crazy fun to drive. If you're going to do all your own work, they can actually be affordable, too.

Notice I said affordable. Not easy to work on.

If you like to work on your own stuff, a German can will quickly cure you of that. Large parts jammed into impossibly tiny spaces, electrical systems from hell, and design elements that are completely off the wall.

Even something simple like changing a tire. No wheel studs to hang the tire on...instead you get to balance the damn thing in place and try to thread bolts in. And you'd better make sure before you start that the rotor and hub are lined up so you can get them in!

That's just one example, but the trend is carried on through the whole design. It's like they intentionally sat down and tried to make everything as irritating to repair as possible.

I daily drove a 930/911 Turbo Porsche coupe for 5 years. Had to put a clutch in it. Did it myself for about $360 AIR. Complete engine/trans. removal required to get to the clutch. Dealer's shop foreman let me make a dimensioned sketch of the engine removal cradle. Had a couple of pieces of plate flame cut and I welded up a cradle. Used a fork lift to get the power pack out/in. I'm an ME/gearhead -- so no big deal.

The repair that really ticked me off involved a comfort heater/cool switching door mechanism that failed. Actually the phenolic ball joint broke. Porsche didn't offer the ball joint as a replacement part. Wanted to sell the whole $900 assembly (with motor and electronic control card). I googled the ball joint brand name, found the US distributor and got two "engineering samples" sent to my work at N/C.

It didn't cost an exorbitant amount (for me) to maintain the 930 while I owned it.

Wife had a 530 BMW while I had the Porsche. If you guys think Bemer sedans are fun to drive --- get some extended wheel time in a real top of the line sports car! In the right gear(s) on the right road -- it's like a roller coaster ride!!

Does your BIL only have experience with used Suburu, Honda or Toyota?
I have been buying strictly BMW CPO cars from BMW dealerships since 2010. I think my total outlay over these 8 years for service has been $2200. I find them to be totally reliable and fun to drive.

My brother in law doesn't do as he says. He owns a Land Rover and a BMW. He was bitching must yesterday about how hard a break job was on the BMW, and how a new wire harness for the Rover was 1000 dollars. He's a parts and race team guy for Flat Irons Suburu. He did put his wife in a sweet Toyota van however.