I watched "Last Days in Vietnam" and wondered the question in the title. Time and again, wherever Socialism/Communism has taken over a country masses of people flee for their lives and many that are left behind are "re-educated" in hard labor camps or executed outright. Are there any instances of this happening when capitalism moves in?

Nobody is fleeing the United States because of poor living conditions, persecution, and the like, so if we and the other Western nations are so bad, why do so many people want to come in to our countries? If Socialism is the bees knees, why don't all those people emigrate/immigrate to Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, and the host of other countries with that form of government?

Has anybody here had a discussion with a Leftist where this topic has come up? If so, did they have a rational answer?

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Originally posted by marksman41:


Has anybody here had a discussion with a Leftist where this topic has come up? If so, did they have a rational answer?

Yes. "Socialism just hasn't been done right."

Then they cite Norway, Sweden and Denmark as socialist countries, which they are not. Liberals just don't understand what most words mean.

Because the American shithead leftist that masturbates to communist/socialist fantasy in their Mom’s basement has never actually had to chafe under the yoke of real authoritarian socialism/communism.

The only place socialism worked was Israel...sort of.

Collective farms, the kibbutz, was the model communities for the post-WWII people fleeing E.Europe. Laboring on farms in exchange for services, food and merchandise with a commitment to serve, helped build the modern Israel. As the country grew however, the simplicity of socialist policies, were unable to withstand the economic ups and downs that come with modernization and the diversity of a growing economy when dealing with the rest of the world. By the 70-80's inflation soared, banks crumbled and loans from other countries stopped, forcing Israel to adopt a more free enterprise model thus, changing their political landscape in the process.

The UK adopted socialist policies after WWII, as the Labor party began to take hold, pandering to labor unions resulted in the nationalization of various industries: coal, steel, trains, auto, utilities. Watch any movie made and the filmed in the UK during the 50-70's and it's a bleak outlook, jokes and wisecracks about British quality were born during this period. While various art genres had bouts of popularity during this time, the British Invasion stimulated the US economy more than it helped the UK and honestly, entertainment popularity doesn't move the needle when it comes to the general economy. It wasn't until Thatcher in the 80's started to privatize industry, that the UK was able to recover from all the socialist policies that were foisted upon the people.

Today, look at all the proponents of socialism, their formative years were all in the 1970's, not a joyous or, fun time in the world.

Human arrogance. They believe the theory so strongly, and they also believe that they are special enough to overcome human nature and make the theory work in practice. They can dismiss all the times before it didn't work because they're special and will succeed this time.

Typically they are not worldly, know very little overall and think they as early progenitors of the movement will be given upgraded status when it is implemented.

Which in itself shows their lack of knowledge.

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Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
Typically they are not worldly, know very little overall and think they as early progenitors of the movement will be given upgraded status when it is implemented.

Which in itself shows their lack of knowledge.

To paraphrase Machiavelli,once you have attained power, kill your supporters.

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To paraphrase Machiavelli,once you have attained power, kill your supporters.

Night of the Long Knives?

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Originally posted by divil:
Because the American shithead leftist that masturbates to communist/socialist fantasy in their Mom’s basement has never actually had to chafe under the yoke of real authoritarian socialism/communism.

Living in their moms basement is a form of that.
They sit on their ass, produce next to nothing, parents provide for their needs.
The only thing lacking is the authoritarian rules.

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Originally posted by bobtheelf:
...they also believe that they are special enough to overcome human nature and make the theory work in practice.

Bingo! This is what is most often glossed over. Socialism/communism will 'never' work because it totally contradicts basic human nature. Who attempts to implement it is irrelevant. It will always fail based upon this one issue.

This again proves my assertion that liberals are mentally ill. When history clearly shows that this governance approach has failed over and over again given its incompatibility with basic human nature, yet liberals will not accept this reality, they prove they are insane.

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Then they cite Norway, Sweden and Denmark as socialist countries, which they are not.

Welfare states aren't socialist. I suppose whatever makes them happy, but one must be willing to pay the level of taxes to get all these services. We Americans would never tolerate 50-80% income tax or $8 a gallon (or whatever they are) gasoline.

Something else these people are fond of citing are police/fire departments and roads. Again, these are not socialism. Social Security and Medicare, now there is a grain of truth to that.

In socialist countries, socialism is touted as being great by those in charge.

After they get stuck in such a system and learn its true "rewards", the proletariat (or working class) on whose necks those esteemed socialist leaders are standing generally don't agree and those with the initiative and the means often try to escape it.

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Originally posted by egregore:

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Then they cite Norway, Sweden and Denmark as socialist countries, which they are not.

Welfare states aren't socialist. I suppose whatever makes them happy, but one must be willing to pay the level of taxes to get all these services. We Americans would never tolerate 50-80% income tax or $8 a gallon (or whatever they are) gasoline.

Something else these people are fond of citing are police/fire departments and roads. Again, these are not socialism. Social Security and Medicare, now there is a grain of truth to that.

Therein is the difference that most people can't differentiate. All of those countries allow for and encourage private ownership and enterprise, something Bernie and Warren are against despite their admiration of those places. The flip-side to those countries, is they will tax the heck out of everything, to pay for all the social programs. That may work if the country has a small population which is culturaly & racially homogenous...Scandinavian countries.

Socialism is only attractive to the ignorant and tyrants.

How does the saying go: "You vote in Socialism with the ballot and end up voting out Communism with the bullet".

Whenever socialism starts to fail, they like to claim that it wasn't "real" socialism. Or they talk about roads and the police and so on and so forth as being socialist, and ya know what? They are. Socialism, and government in general, is a lot like salt. If you got no salt at all, you will die, and it wont be fun. Get too much salt, and you will die, and it wont be fun. The trick is finding that perfect balance. Some societies will need more socialism, or they flourish better with more of it, while other societies don't need near as much. I think the United States is a little more like that second one.

Basically, what works for Denmark probably isn't going to work for us. Plus, humans are kind of dickheads, well meaning a lot of the time, but still dickheads, and I don't trust 'em.

These morons that support and want socialism are nothing more than low IQ, liberal, progressive, ignorant democrats! I say let them go live in any socialist country of their choice and don't let them back into the US! Good Riddance to these parasites of hunanity.

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Originally posted by marksman41:
Has anybody here had a discussion with a Leftist where this topic has come up? If so, did they have a rational answer?

When did a "Leftist" ever have a rational thought?

flashguy

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Originally posted by corsair:.....All of those countries allow for and encourage private ownership and enterprise, something Bernie and Warren are against despite their admiration of those places. The flip-side to those countries, is they will tax the heck out of everything, to pay for all the social programs. That may work if the country has a small population which is culturaly & racially homogenous...Scandinavian countries.

I think that needs a repeat.