https://madison.com/news/local...a1-bdbc68d8de4d.html

Citing 'institutionalized racism,' Madison ends credit checks for prospective cops

Chris Rickert |
Wisconsin State Journal Jan 10, 2023

Aiming to further diversify a department that already mostly reflects its community, Madison’s Police and Fire Commission voted Monday to stop requiring credit checks of prospective police officers.

In a Dec. 7 memo to the commission, Madison Police Capt. Tim Patton wrote that “employers routinely utilize credit reports as an indicator of how candidates handle responsibilities and the extent to which they may be in financial distress.”

But in Madison the checks, which cost the city a total of about $700 in 2022, “are not being used in any meaningful way,” Patton said, and “in the limited cases where the reports have proved actionable, the history revealed a history of unpaid child support that served to inform the direction of the background investigation in some way.”

In addition, the checks could create an “unintentional barrier for potential applicants,” with special emphasis on multicultural candidates and women, he said.

“Per our research, multicultural populations have disproportionately lower credit scores due to discriminatory practices that are rooted in systems of institutionalized racism,” he said. “While some might argue that people need to just ‘work hard’ and be responsible, many people of color struggle in part due to disproportionate incomes and opportunities. The impact of credit checks therefore, potentially present a disparate negative impact on multicultural candidates.”

Patton said the move to end the checks stemmed from a conference put on by 30x30 — a national effort to increase the percentage of female law enforcement officers to 30% by 2030.

With a commissioned workforce that is about 29% female, the Madison Police Department already effectively meets that goal, according to the department’s 2021 annual report, the most recent available. Nationally, only about 12% of commissioned law enforcement officers are women, according to 30x30.

Madison police officers have also long been a more diverse group than other law enforcement agencies and, with some exceptions, reflect the community they serve.

About 9% of commissioned officers are Black, for example, while census figures show the city’s Black population to be about 7.4%. Hispanic people make up about 8.7% of Madison’s population and about 7% of MPD officers. At the management level, Madison has a Black chief, and the 18 people who lead the city’s six police districts include four Black men and five women.

Asians appear to be the least represented racial or ethnic group in MPD; they make up about 9.5% of the city’s population but only about 3% of the city’s police force. Patton said the department is not asserting that institutional racism against Asians is why the force has a disproportionately low number of Asian officers.

Stark racial and sex disparities do exist in arrests, with Black people making up about 42% of adults arrested in Madison and women about 27%.

Patton said ending the credit check is not part of an attempt to bring the percentages of Black officers and arrests of Black people closer.

“In our analysis, given the lack of actionable information, the cost of running the reports, and the possibility that we may miss the opportunity to meet a great candidate, we chose to request the change to the PFC’s process,” Patton said.

I certainly don't think credit checks should be used as a strict "you must have at least a credit score of XYZ to work here" type of rule, like car dealerships and banks do when they're deciding if they're going to loan you money. After all, someone could have a low credit score simply due to having little to no reported credit history (due to having no credit cards, no loans, never renting from a landlord large enough that they bother reporting rent payments, etc.). A low credit score in and of itself doesn't mean they've done anything wrong.

But I do think a credit history check is a useful tool during police applicant background checks, and negative information about financial problems, unpaid bills, large amounts of unsecured debt, bankruptcies, etc. gleaned from someone's credit history should be used as part of the overall totality of the circumstances examined as part of the background investigation.

I lived in Wisconsin. It is called soft bigotry. Thorough psychological evaluations for all would be a better metric.

$700 for a credit report ?! That’s about 20x what the cost
Hopefully that Includes some additional background checks.

I spose we wouldn’t want to know if a prospect has huge problems paying bills timely as it shows no negative attributes…. Probly don’t want to know if somebody has tens or hundreds of thousands of untenable debt and would be tempted to do anything untoward or be on the take. Definitely would never happen. Nothing will go wrong with this new policy.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
$700 for a credit report ?! That’s about 20x what the cost

No, they spent around $700 in total on all of the credit checks they ran in 2022. They weren't paying $700 apiece.

So if that's 20x the going rate for an individual credit check, it sounds like they must have run about 20 total credit checks last year...

quote:

But in Madison the checks, which cost the city a total of about $700 in 2022

It's true- good credit is racist.

I think they should have checks on current officers from time to time.

Think about Serpico saying he never met a cop in New York who wasn't on the take. True story.

And think about the cops on the take in "American Gangster" another true story.

And I think about the cop friends I have had over the years including the one who made half what I do and lived twice as large plus Mrs. Flash's first husband who was a cop on the East Coast, the South and the West Coast and on the take on each and every one.

Something to think about.

When I was a kid in the early 60’s, I worked as an usher and doorman. The manager had standing orders, “all cops, firemen and their families always get in free.” just showed badges or I.D.

It was a great perk knowing these folks were in the audience!

Why can't they just say we are hiring anyone that can fog a mirror?

An opportunity to seem hip and inclusive?

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Think about Serpico saying he never met a cop in New York who wasn't on the take. True story.

50-60+ years ago. (And c'mon, it's very hard to believe that the entire NYPD of the 1960s/1970s, all eleventeen-thousand strong, was dirty.)

quote:

And think about the cops on the take in "American Gangster" another true story.

Also 50-60+ years ago.


It's not that there's zero possibility of a modern day LEO being "on the take". Hell, I can show you an example from Arkansas from just a few years ago. But those aren't exactly great examples here. Consider how much so many other things, and the rules, guidelines, and expectations for so many other professions, have changed in the last 50-60 years...

Law enforcement changes and adapts as well. And one of the big ways that law enforcement has changed in the past many decades (and especially the last 2-3 decades) is higher behavioral standards and much greater accountability and oversight.



I don't believe it's anywhere near realistic to have a poor opinion of all modern day cops based on anecdotes about some bad cops from 50-60 years ago, especially fictionalized movie accounts of some bad cops 50-60 years ago.

I think back to several years back on the forum, where there used to be this one guy who would wade into every law enforcement related thread with his story about his run-in with some dirty cops in rural Wherevertown back in early 1970-something, and how as a result he's hated all cops ever since. Ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
And I think about the cop friends I have had over the years including the one who made half what I do and lived twice as large

What did their wife/live-in girlfriend do for work, and/or how much overtime were they working each pay period, and/or what other legitimate sources of income did they have on the side?

Unless you've examined their financials in detail, to know for certain that the numbers weren't adding up, why would you jump directly to: "Oh, they must be on the take!"

Seems to me like you've been watching too many movies, my friend.

Delivery people need to pass credit checks to work for most companies. Bad debt usually comes from , and leads to, bad choices.
It makes no sense to not look at the financial history of an applicant that will have lots of temptation to take bribes or steal.
Should it be a minimum score standard? No. Should it be looked at for any red flags and investigated as part of the whole background check? Yes, just like running them for wants and warrants.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I think they should have checks on current officers from time to time.

Think about Serpico saying he never met a cop in New York who wasn't on the take. True story.

And think about the cops on the take in "American Gangster" another true story.

And I think about the cop friends I have had over the years including the one who made half what I do and lived twice as large plus Mrs. Flash's first husband who was a cop on the East Coast, the South and the West Coast and on the take on each and every one.

Something to think about.

My did was a cop around the same time as Serpico. I don't think they ever met so I will forgive him for casting aspersions.
Having said that, my did was never on the take. He was in the Street Crime Unit. Anyone in that unit that was on the take, if found out, would have gotten the "Serpico treatment" for being a crook, and double quick. Those guys were fanatics.

Bruce

There can be several reasonable reasons for having bad credit.

For example

1. When I was hired I had shitty credit because I had divorced 3 years prior and was still working on paying off the debt she incurred in my name (she had credit cards with my name and ran them up)

2. My credit now is shitty, because I don’t use credit cards and everything I own is paid off..cars, house, etc.

But when I was being interviewed my credit report was brought out and I explained each item. The guy doing my background had been fucked over by his ex wife and completely understood what I was going thru. So my bad credit didn’t affect my hire.

And that's how it should be. It's a tool to use to help gather information during the background check process. It's not the gospel, and it's not the be-all and end-all of the background check. But it's also not pointless/worthless.

I have long taken issue with credit reports being used for anything other than the extension of credit, and the fact that there are those that use them to make decisions, but do not report back to the bureaus.

Bad decisions lead to lawsuits. Those are public records. Look there first.

My credit score is decent, but it wasn't always. As previously mentioned, the lack of credit results in a low/lower/no score, and once upon a time I paid cash for everything. As another example, it is not uncommon for me to run my credit cards to near their limits, sometimes on a single purchase. This often drops my score by 50 points or more. Never mind the fact that I'm only doing it for the rewards and can pay it completely off immediately.

Prior to the internet extensive Credit checks involved copies of all bank accounts including transaction going back a number of years. Photos of all vehicles purchased, interviews with ALL neighbors and the standard FBI background check. If your father got a DUI the booking photo was available. This was a period in time prior to politics in the FBI. Police brutality was the concern at the time. All of this information was helpful.
If a guy had bad credit you asked about it. Excluding credit checks is just another woke policy that will backfire.

Totally off-topic, but RNShooter, the first quote in your signature line is attributable to Douglas Adams, referring to the “Kill-O-Zap” gun in Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, not anything by PKD. Just an observation from someone who’s a big fan of both authors…

quote:

Originally posted by scoutrifleman:
Totally off-topic, but RNShooter, the first quote in your signature line is attributable to Douglas Adams, referring to the “Kill-O-Zap” gun in Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, not anything by PKD. Just an observation from someone who’s a big fan of both authors…

D'oh!
Naturally, you're right. I fixed it.
There was something in Neuromancer that made me think it came from there. Funny that nobody else caught that

While credit checks aren't completely irrelevant (for example, someone deep in debt might be tempted to take a bribe or, in the case of insurance, commit fraud, etc.), the reasoning that "because ray-ciss" is bogus.

quote:

Asians appear to be the least represented racial or ethnic group in MPD; they make up about 9.5% of the city’s population but only about 3% of the city’s police force. Patton said the department is not asserting that institutional racism against Asians is why the force has a disproportionately low number of Asian officers.

Why not?

9% of the population doesn't get to be represented in the police force they pay taxes into, despite all the cries, policies and academic studies pointing out all sorts of alleged racial barriers?