quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
All for it, let MA have at it, if they want legal drugs, then, let them be the test case for that policy, pro states rights, a constitutional solution.

We can watch from afar, see how much crime drops, costs of drugs down, reduced illegal drug sales, it's all going to be nirvana...

We need a bell cow for this solution, many think it's the way to go, so have at it MA, lets see if you can prove your point!

This seems reasonable. When Colorado made marijuana legal there was much talk of how it would be a disaster, yet now it's not news when another state does the same. Legalizing all drugs is different, of course, but removing drug cartel markets seems good to at least try.

quote:

Originally posted by bryan11:
When Colorado made marijuana legal there was much talk of how it would be a disaster, yet now it's not news when another state does the same. Legalizing all drugs is different, of course, but removing drug cartel markets seems good to at least try.

Maybe not a disaster, but it's had a large negative impact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6913861/

Executive Summary
The Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (RMHIDTA) program has published annual reports every year since 2013 tracking the impact of legalizing recreational marijuana in Colorado. The purpose is to provide data and information so that policy makers and citizens can make informed decisions on the issue of marijuana legalization.1

Go to:
Section I: Traffic Fatalities & Impaired Driving
Since recreational marijuana was legalized, traffic deaths in which drivers tested positive for marijuana increased 109 percent while all Colorado traffic deaths increased 31 percent.
Since recreational marijuana was legalized, traffic deaths involving drivers who tested positive for marijuana more than doubled from 55 in 2013 to 115 people killed in 2018.
This equates to one person killed every 3 days in 2018 compared to one person killed every 6½ days in 2013.
Since recreational marijuana was legalized, the percentage of all Colorado traffic deaths that were marijuana-related increased from 15 percent in 2013 to 23 percent in 2018.
Go to:
Section II: Marijuana Use
Since recreational marijuana was legalized:

Past month marijuana use for ages 12 and older increased 58 percent and is 78 percent higher than the national average, currently ranked 4th in the nation.
Adult marijuana use increased 94 percent and is 96 percent higher than the national average, currently ranked 4th in the nation.
College age marijuana use increased 18 percent and is 48 percent higher than the national average, currently ranked 6th in the nation.
Youth marijuana use decreased 14 percent and is 40 percent higher than the national average, currently ranked 6th in the nation.
Go to:
Section III: Public Health
The yearly number of emergency department visits related to marijuana increased 54 percent after the legalization of recreational marijuana (2013 compared to 2017).
The yearly number of marijuana-related hospitalizations increased 101 percent after the legalization of recreational marijuana (2013 compared to 2017).
Marijuana-only exposures more than quadrupled in the six-year average (2013–2018) since recreational marijuana was legalized compared to the six-year average (2007–2012) prior to legalization.
The percent of suicide incidents in which toxicology results were positive for marijuana has increased from 14 percent in 2013 to 23 percent in 2017.

Yeah, Colorado is just a hell hole. Lol!

So parochial

About 30% of traffic fatalities in the US, an average of over 10,000 per year, involve drivers with BACs over 0.08.

If you look at the RMHIDTA report that summary is based on, in only 1/3 of the marijuana-involved crashes did the operator ONLY test positive for marijuana. 52% were also positive for alcohol (some of those also positive for another drug besides marijuana).

If we really want to prioritize reducing traffic fatalities, we should go back to Prohibition. Alcohol is literally another recreational drug, just a more-or-less socially acceptable one.

(I’m not a teetotaler, I just don’t see how the arguments against pot don’t also apply to alcohol - maybe even more so.)

All you are doing is opening the market for the Cartels both foreign and domestic.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
All you are doing is opening the market for the Cartels both foreign and domestic.

I guess you’ve never seen the east side of the I-5 corridor … It’s all cartels from Mexico to Canada.

Eastern Washington is awash in Mexican drug cartels.

North Dakota governor was complaining this morning on the news about the same damn thing.

That’s what happens when you import 2 million people that you don’t know shit about.

And my point is, the cartels are already here in spades. They will defend their business interests from any newcomers with violence.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
About 30% of traffic fatalities in the US, an average of over 10,000 per year, involve drivers with BACs over 0.08.

If you look at the RMHIDTA report that summary is based on, in only 1/3 of the marijuana-involved crashes did the operator ONLY test positive for marijuana. 52% were also positive for alcohol (some of those also positive for another drug besides marijuana).

If we really want to prioritize reducing traffic fatalities, we should go back to Prohibition. Alcohol is literally another recreational drug, just a more-or-less socially acceptable one.

(I’m not a teetotaler, I just don’t see how the arguments against pot don’t also apply to alcohol - maybe even more so.)

Over 100,000 Americans died of Drug OD Last Year...That's over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND!!! The VAST Majority started their drug habit using Marijuana, and to a lesser extent, prescription drugs. Drugs are a Very BIG Problem!

Mass can do whatever they want. I'm just waiting for my sister and her husband to join us down here in FA.

Free America.

The North East can burn.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
About 30% of traffic fatalities in the US, an average of over 10,000 per year, involve drivers with BACs over 0.08.

If you look at the RMHIDTA report that summary is based on, in only 1/3 of the marijuana-involved crashes did the operator ONLY test positive for marijuana. 52% were also positive for alcohol (some of those also positive for another drug besides marijuana).

If we really want to prioritize reducing traffic fatalities, we should go back to Prohibition. Alcohol is literally another recreational drug, just a more-or-less socially acceptable one.

(I’m not a teetotaler, I just don’t see how the arguments against pot don’t also apply to alcohol - maybe even more so.)

Over 100,000 Americans died of Drug OD Last Year...That's over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND!!! The VAST Majority started their drug habit using Marijuana, and to a lesser extent, prescription drugs. Drugs are a Very BIG Problem!

Alcohol kills about 100,000 people a year, too, and cigarettes kill about 500,000.

I’m not actually saying legalize everything, but no one seems to bat an eye at the two big legal recreational drugs that kill a hell of a lot of people. (And if we’re playing that game, I bet most of the drug users you mention who started with marijuana were drinking and/or smoking before they started pot.)

Since NY changed the law, all the idiots seem to think it's perfectly fine to drive around while smoking. (same with some geniuses at work. "It's legal now." Yeah Einstein and alcohol has been legal your whole life, but you can't F'ing drink it while you're at work!")


What pisses me off perhaps the most, as I've said before about legalizing things (weed and sports gambling), is it's not being done because society thinks one thing or another, it's being done because politicians realized they could make a lot of money from it. Buying votes with the issue. Buying votes with the money it brings in.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Yeah Einstein and alcohol has been legal your whole life, but you can't F'ing drink it while you're at work!"

LOL

Massachusetts politicians figure they can line their pockets with votes and cash by legalizing drugs, the money they make on criminalizing it, public funded defense counsel, treatment centers halfway houses, court fees and fines are chump change to our legislators compared to legalizing it. Drug reps, lobbyists, dispensary pacs, business license fees and other payoff’s much more profitable for Massachusetts politicians. Only reason a person runs for office in Massachusetts is what they can get out of it, whether it’s money, power, or control. Public Service by these guys R or D is a fucking joke, politicians in Massachusetts are worse than mobsters.

Yes, in the end, it’s about the money. When Washington state “legalized” weed almost a decade ago, they did it in such a way that it got taxed 25% three separate times before it ever got to store shelves, whereupon you pay your added 10% sales tax. In effect, the state saw this revenue stream that they weren’t getting a taste of, and decided they needed to stick a big fucking straw in it. It’s no different anywhere else this has been done. And yes, the homeless problem in Washington increased noticeably after the shops opened up everywhere.

Oh, and weed isn’t the gateway drug all the inexperienced think it is. Booze is. That said, I did hear two old hippies in an AA meeting just now say they smoked weed before they drank, but once they discovered booze, that was their drug or choice. It was noteworthy simply because I almost never hear it that way. NA meetings are loaded with people who are off all the hard stuff but still drink because “booze isn’t the problem.” AA meetings have a lot of people who started in NA and graduated to AA when they realized booze was the original problem, and was still the problem, it just got overshadowed by a pipe or a needle.

Wow, some folks sure got triggered in here.

What I don't understand, is why people think there has to be just ONE solution.

Is it, in any way, possible that the solution might be multifaceted?

Could it help to actually enforce the laws on the books regarding possession of controlled substances?

Could it help increasing availability of treatment facilities to help those who actually WANT help to get off drugs?

Could it be a good idea to provide all the possible education, vocational, housing, and basic needs (within reason of course, I'm not advocating a free ride here) of folks WHILE they undergo treatment?

In typical 2000's fashion, every asshole on the internet things that THEY HAVE THE ONE AND ONLY ANSWER AND IF YOU DARE DISAGREE WITH ANY SINGLE PORTION OF IT YOU ARE THE ENEMY!!!!

Do you think the "War on Drugs" is a waste or think it is a good idea?

Do you think the "War on Poverty" is a waste or a good idea?

Either way, you're right!

This isn't a problem that is going to have just one single solution. That is because mostly we have kicked the can down the road. Just like we have kicked the can down the road on illegal immigration, healthcare, social security, and a myriad of other issues (please don't take that as pro or con on those, just that there has NOT been any solution and just a "punt" by the government on all of them)

You REALLY want to attack the drug problem? Then ATTACK it, on all fronts.

Get manufacturing back

Get actual drug treatment programs that force people to complete them, and make it easier for families to get people into the involuntarily through the courts.

Get some actual teeth in the court system. Tiered steps. First offense MANDATORY treatment, second offense prison time and LONGER MANDATORY treatment, third time LONGER PRISON and then MANDATORY treatment... etc.

KEEP offenders locked up. Once you show you CAN NOT hack it, then guess what, you stay there. You get three, four or five strikes... If the opportunities are ACTUALLY there... then that's on the user.

While we are at it, let's actually let the police be police. I'm not going to post how terrible our policies and practices have become, cause if it got out how (almost) literally handcuffed we are... it would be a free for all.

Kevin

You’re absolutely right and I agree with you at every point.

The first successful treatment of addiction that we know of in human history didn’t occur until 1935. Hopeless drunks and addicts have only been getting clean and sober for the last 87 years. The drugs have evolved, but the same program, combined with supervised medical detox for those who need it, has cleaned up millions off alcohol and drugs. It works to this day. Imagine what we could accomplish as a society if we put some actual resources behind studying and treating addiction. Not the way we have been, but more the way you suggest, a (pardon the term, but it’s correct here) holistic approach to dealing with it.