Perkin’s township police?

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
When the lights come on you pull as far to the right as possible and stop. Assume the police officer knows the job as well as you know yours and has reasons for doing things the way they do whether or not you’re aware of or agree with them. If they then want you to move to another spot they will tell you via loudspeaker. Any argument you have should be made in court.

It’s been this way forever. How did everyone not get the memo?

Not really sure the answer to your question, but some of it may have to do with the easy access to news and info these days and the stories coming out about LE that didn't know what they were doing.

Assuming can be dangerous and I would think taking you and yours safety into your own hands is sometimes the best call.

I'm sure the woman from Australia walking up to the cop car in her PJs assumed the guys inside the car were trained professionals, right up until officer somalia put a chunk of lead in her chest.

Maybe when you did pull over you should have pulled over farther...

(I have not had time to read all the replies.)

I have a road that has a stretch where there are no shoulders (does have painted lines), a limestone cliff on one side and a river bank on the other. You mean to tell me I should pull over immediately there if I get lit up, not drive on until the road widens in another couple of miles and then pull over? What the fuck is wrong with finding a safe place for both of us? If another driver gets into an accident trying to avoid us, or hits the cop, do I get charged with it?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,

I've been in the same situation before. I pull over immediately and let the officer take the risk. I was cordial and asked if it was better we pull up somewhere more safe. When it happened to me he said to follow him, which I did. I got a ticket anyway but at least it was on his terms.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I will tell you from experience that police in Ohio have little tolerance for people that are not from that state. Its lucky you didn't have Michigan plates or you'd likely had your vehicle confiscated.

Right? Make sure you yell GO BLUE! That always wins them over.

quote:

The car is in FL, of course it has tinted windows.

I was calm, albeit scarred shitless, answered in no sir, yes sir and greater detail when asked. I was always respectful.

I bring up the tinted windows because we used to travel in full sized SUV, tinted windows, and Florida plates. Never had been pulled over in Florida, but pulled over 5 times in 3 different states. After the fourth time I really wanted to respond to "Do you know why I have pulled you over?" with "Because I'm driving a large SUV, with tinted windows and Florida plates, on a popular drug corridor and you are looking for drugs." Instead, I always replied with the statutory reason like, "Because I'm was going 75 in a 70." All five times I got a verbal warning.

I have three vehicles in Florida, none have tinted windows and I haven't been pulled over out of state again. With the responses here about people trying to hide stuff while not pulling over, I wouldn't have thought of that as I don't think like a criminal. I can see how that would tingle the officer's Spidey sense. Why were you scared shitless? Do you think the officer picked up on that?

I don't know Ohio law, but in many states fleeing and eluding is a felony. You need to lawyer up.

quote:

It’s been this way forever. How did everyone not get the memo?

Because I was taught to pull over WHERE IT WAS SAFE TO DO SO. Not where the lights came on.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
You will be out some cash, but it is not going anywhere.
As for being arrested, once the cuffs go on, thats an arrest. You are in custody and Miranda applies.

Not quite.

quote:

A person has been seized within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, U.S. Const. amend. IV, only if, in view of all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not free to leave. Examples of circumstances that might indicate a seizure, even where the person did not attempt to leave, would be the threatening presence of several officers, the display of a weapon by an officer, some physical touching of the person of the citizen, or the use of language or tone of voice indicating that compliance with the officer's request might be compelled. In the absence of some such evidence, otherwise inoffensive contact between a member of the public and the police cannot, as a matter of law, amount to a seizure of that person.

United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. 544, 546 (1980)

You are in custody when you are placed in a situation where a reasonable person would not feel free to leave.

That can be a simple as an officer saying "You are not free to leave" or in some cases, being physically boxed in by officers.

There is no magic trinket that applies in every case. Once the cuffs are on, a reasonable person would not feel free to leave. That having been said, a reasonable person could have felt not-free-to-leave long before the cuffs came on, depending on the circumstances.

In some states, such as Oregon, the defendant is in custody for the purposes of Miranda at the point the officer decides to arrest that individual (and yes, I have seen officers write "At this point I decided to arrest ______" in their report, and it happened before the officer questioned the subject, triggering an evidence suppression question).


***

As far as the OP's situation, I can't imagine your lawyer would be happy about this publicly accessible post.

"But LDD, there's no reason to prosecute this case: no one was harmed, there's no substance, and it's not in the best interest of justice."

All true.

But let me give you a different perspective, having observed the inner workings of a few local agencies in my area.

Police can choose to arrest you, and they can recommend charging you, but ultimately, it's up to someone in the the district attorney's office to charge.

District Attorney offices aren't filled only with grizzled seasoned prosecutors who don't have time for the piddly little misdemeanors of life. Almost all large and medium-sized agencies have newbies who are hungry for their first trial experiences and will charge whatever they get to so they can obtain that trial experience. In some cases, those newbs might be law students who haven't even passed the bar. They don't care if the chances of winning as prosecutors are low because they're just trying to get time in front of a judge or jury. And, it's precisely these "small" cases that land on the desks of new assistant DAs and law students. You've heard of badge-heavy rookies who want end every stop in an arrest? Maybe you think you met one that day already. Well, there are those types in DA offices too. These junior prosecutors will drag you into court, because frankly, it's not about you or what you did, its about them.

Yeah, it sucks, but it's true.

Therefore:

Covering your ass until you're 100% in the clear is not a bad idea. No one here is going to help you as much as your state-admitted attorney. If you have to spill your beans, better to do it only in front of someone who has a duty of confidentiality to you.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LDD,

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

It’s been this way forever. How did everyone not get the memo?

Because I was taught to pull over WHERE IT WAS SAFE TO DO SO. Not where the lights came on.

That's actually exactly as I remember it. Most everything I've read says pull over as soon as it's safe. Now that's certainly subjective, but either way, this cop was out of line and frankly a jerk. Just my opinion of course.

Just read the TN manual. It says other than in the middle of an intersection - pull over pretty much immediately. It does say that you can proceed to a public area IF the car is unmarked and not obviously a police car.

PS - since this is a gun forum: it also says you must inform the police if you have a permit and are carrying.

Also made me think: Since we can freely cross state lines in our cars - traffic laws should pretty much be the same or should be federal maybe. Although I hate giving anything to the feds to run/oversee. But it makes sense to have uniformity of traffic laws.

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:

PS - since this is a gun forum: it also says you must inform the police if you have a permit and are carrying.

You DO NOT have a duty to inform a police officer if you are carrying in Tennessee. Just fyi.

Pretty much the exact thing has happened to me. Twice. Once in 1986, and again last year. I also behaved similar to what the OP indicated, and for the reasons he stated...safety of the officer. Polite. Respectful. Windows all down, Interior lights all 'ON', License & Reg. in hand, hands on the wheel. Happened once in AR, once in GA. Verbal warning both times for the (obvious) infraction I had comitted. If common sense had prevailed, the officer would have grasped your reasons for doing what you did, and been appreciative, and arguably could (maybe should have) issued the running the red light citation. When dealing with the public, a good cop should have enough street sense to discern between a citizen who is concerned for the officer's safety, and a common dirt bag. He missed the mark, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

It’s been this way forever. How did everyone not get the memo?

Because I was taught to pull over WHERE IT WAS SAFE TO DO SO. Not where the lights came on.

I told my mother this story. She just retired, but the last 8 years of her work life were spent as a civilian employee of a very large Sheriff's office. The second thing out of her mouth, after calling the officer a not nice name, was to mention how her agency specifically tells / has told women driving alone not to pull over until in a well lit area with other people.

The idea of pulling over as soon as there are lights, regardless of the road situation, is NOT universally known.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Why were you scared shitless? Do you think the officer picked up on that?

Because I have never been in handcuffs. And all of sudden I was in handcuffs, in the back of a squad car, looking out the window at my children crying their eyes out on the side of the road.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

It’s been this way forever. How did everyone not get the memo?

Because I was taught to pull over WHERE IT WAS SAFE TO DO SO. Not where the lights came on.

That's actually exactly as I remember it. Most everything I've read says pull over as soon as it's safe. Now that's certainly subjective, but either way, this cop was out of line and frankly a jerk. Just my opinion of course.

Anyone know what the law actually says? Probably more important to the case at hand than recollections of drivers ed taught 50 years ago by someone who was unable to get a real job...?

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Why were you scared shitless? Do you think the officer picked up on that?

Because I have never been in handcuffs. And all of sudden I was in handcuffs, in the back of a squad car, looking out the window at my children crying their eyes out on the side of the road.

Ah. I thought you meant that's how you were at the start of the encounter.

If it happened as you say, the cop should be ashamed of himself.

I don't want to be one of those people, but you really should remove this post.

This whole thing is pretty ridiculous. Sounds like some backwoods yokels were bored and looking for something to do. I highly doubt in a major populated area you would have been arrested unless you drove for like 30 min. or something crazy.

Hell, in high school I was a passenger in the car with my friend who was in a similar situation on I-95 in Baltimore. He pulled over in a construction zone/barely any shoulder area and had his ass chewed by a trooper for it. We were 17 yrs old at the time and this trooper was just being a dick. But hey my friend pulled over right away and I guess it saved him from a silly arrest.