On 7-20-20 my 2016 F350 broke down. I was driving and got a dash warning of reduced engine speed and reduced engine power. Normally it would go into limp mode, instead it completely shut down and would not restart. Had it towed to dealer and thats when the trouble started.

Cause of break down is low fuel pressure in common rails (fuel rails). This is a 6.7 Diesel truck

First message day after tow from dealer said there was DEF in the fuel. Then two days later the service manager took over the calls and said, no there was not DEF in the fuel they are going to take samples and let them sit for the weekend and see what is in the fuel. Went into dealer on 7-28-20 and service manager advised me the fuel pump had failed (metal shavings found in fuel samples) and caused the system contamination and they would be fixing it under warranty.

Received a follow up call early am on 7-31-20 from service manager that Ford was denying the warranty and I needed to call ford customer service to escalate the issue. Call Ford CS and open a case. Same day i receive a reply from ford that CS is back their warranty dept and are in fact denying the warranty due to "water contamination" as determined by looking at a picture the dealer sent that showed "rust" on the PCV pump which indicated there had at some point been water in the fuel system. Thus contamination, warranty denied.

Escalate to CS manager and receive call on 8-3-20 that CS manager agrees with warranty department, warranty denied.

8-4-20, dealer escalates issue with their warranty people and are again denied warranty.

The entire time the dealer is pushing to do the warranty saying that ford warranty dept is wrong, but of course, if ford wont warranty, the dealer can't get paid.

So I have Geico mechanical breakdown coverage, so I make a claim with them. This is separate mechanical insurance you can get when purchasing a mew vehicle, basically an extended warranty. Claim with them is going well except if they determine that ford should in fact warranty the issue, they wont cover. Ford wont send Geico their determination, wont send a denial of warranty letter of basically help resolve with Geico at all. Geico is sending an inspector/adjuster out on monday to look at vehicle.

Summery, Ford dealer is trying to get warranty work, Ford corporate warranty says denied based on looking at a picture. Attempting to use extended warranty through Geico, but may not work if it is in fact a Ford warranty item.

And suggestions? If this isn't covered by anyone it's going to be a $10,500.00 repair. FML and fuck Ford.

Thank boys n girls.

I'll bet the dealer is telling you they are on your side but at the same time, they are the ones that sent the damming evidence to Ford to get it denied. They just don't want a bad survey.

Total guess here, the water damage would show neglect as far as servicing the fuel/water separator? Do you have service records, even if not from the dealer?

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
I'll bet the dealer is telling you they are on your side but at the same time, they are the ones that sent the damming evidence to Ford to get it denied. They just don't want a bad survey.

Total guess here, the water damage would show neglect as far as servicing the fuel/water separator? Do you have service records, even if not from the dealer?

Or , the dealer incorrectly reported contamination to Ford initially (based on their multiple miss diagnosis early on) and Ford has dug their heals in now.

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
I'll bet the dealer is telling you they are on your side but at the same time, they are the ones that sent the damming evidence to Ford to get it denied. They just don't want a bad survey.

Total guess here, the water damage would show neglect as far as servicing the fuel/water separator? Do you have service records, even if not from the dealer?

I have a sneaking suspicion you are correct on dealer being shiesty. But I have no proof so......

I have receipt for first fuel filter(s) that I changed at 15k miles and I had ford dealer in Virginia change filters at 30k, so yes showing proper servicing. Have the third set of filters for 45k change in my possession. Truck is at 45200 miles.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM

Or , the dealer incorrectly reported contamination to Ford initially (based on their multiple miss diagnosis early on) and Ford has dug their heals in now.

Ford has definitely dug their heels in. Fuckers

^^^ That’s exactly what happened, TXJIM. Sigolicious needs to contact Ford directly and tell them what has happened. The dealer is the one that screwed up this entire deal.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^ That’s exactly what happened, TX. Sigolicious needs to contact Ford directly and tell them what has happened. The dealer is the one that screwed up this entire deal.

I have, and they are giving me the stiff arm.

Time to lawyer up then.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Time to lawyer up then.

I have searched for warranty arbitration attorneys and not much comes up. Lots of lemon law attorneys though. I'll make some calls on monday to see if I can get any references.

quote:

I have receipt for first fuel filter(s) that I changed at 15k miles and I had ford dealer in Virginia change filters at 30k, so yes showing proper servicing. Have the third set of filters for 45k change in my possession. Truck is at 45200 miles.

What does the maintenance manual say for mileage and or length of time between changes? If you are within those parameters I would definitely escalate with Ford, send the receipts


Also, does your truck have a water in fuel warning light? If so, sounds like it was faulty

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:

quote:

I have receipt for first fuel filter(s) that I changed at 15k miles and I had ford dealer in Virginia change filters at 30k, so yes showing proper servicing. Have the third set of filters for 45k change in my possession. Truck is at 45200 miles.

What does the maintenance manual say for mileage and or length of time between changes? If you are within those parameters I would definitely escalate with Ford, send the receipts


Also, does your truck have a water in fuel warning light? If so, sounds like it was faulty

15k miles between fuel filter changes, definitely on time. Yes, fuel in water warning system and have never had a light.

Already escalated with Ford and they have said no, backing their warranty dept who looked at a picture to determine this.

The easy answer is that its all your fault. You were stupid and bought a Ferd. You should never do that again. Ever. Yes, lawyer up. And then start a picket line, out in front of their driveway. Tell the world they're crooks and won't warranty your truck. They hate bad publicity and this affords you the opportunity to tell the world. Sue the bastards at the very least. But keep in mind that you bought that brand, and its your fault in the end. Ever wonder why so many folks hate the brand? You've just joined the club.

If you do end up paying to get a truck on the road, get it painted. With a big sign telling the world what crooks they are. And offer to tell anyone who is interested the details. Consider you're talking a bunch of money, and they just don't want to eat it. Make it more costly for them not to. There is a thriving community of Ferd lovers out there. Make it a goal to just drive a bunch of them to other brands. Don't let the dealer off easy. Make sure everyone knows you got screwed. You can even park your truck down the road from the dealership with the sign on it. They have your truck and won't fix it to your satisfaction.

Currently they're holding most of the cards. You only have bad publicity on your side. Play your card well.

Even if it gets covered by the extended warranty, that dealer wouldn't be doing it if it was mine. They would only do it if Ford covered it...

This really isn’t a Ford issue as this is a common occurrence amongst all modern Diesel engines. It wasn’t as prevalent with the Cummins from 2017 and earlier because they were still using Bosch CP3 high pressure injection pumps which are a little more tolerant of contamination, but the CP4 as used by Ford and a Chevy are completely intolerant of ANY moisture in the fuel system. There are several companies that offer additional fuel filtration and water separation that are quick, easy installs, using factory connections that require no permanent modification. When your truck is repaired you MUST add one of these. Ford has probably the least amount of fuel filtration and water separation from the factory and these problems are more prevalent with the 6.7 Powerstroke.

As for your current problem, this may end up being a comprehensive claim on your insurance. If the cause of this problem is indeed moisture in your fuel then it isn’t really a warranties mechanical failure. It is essentially just as if someone poured water in your fuel tank as an act of vandalism. Your insurance should cover that, I know when I still had my diesel trucks I ensured that the company I had insuring those vehicles had comprehensive coverage that included fuel contamination. This is far more common a problem than you might believe.

Lastly, in addition to adding the additional fuel filtration on your truck, be careful where you get your fuel. Make sure you get your fuel from someplace that sells a lot of diesel so that you aren’t getting diesel that’s been in the tanks for weeks. Also check the fuel filter/ water separator that’s on the pump and make sure that it’s been changed appropriately. I also logged every fill up and saved every fuel receipt when I was driving a diesel truck in case I ever had any problems. Thankfully I never had an issue but I was prepared in case I did. Good luck.

Have you checked any of the F150 forums and posted your problem there?

Sometime you get lucky and can find a service bulletin where Ford acknowledged a problem.

Give these guys a contact....

https://www.nhtsa.gov

Any motor vehicle that shuts down in traffic due to a fuel issue is a danger.

I used NHTSA years ago against BMW over a fuel leak issue.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Have you checked any of the F150 forums and posted your problem there?

Sometime you get lucky and can find a service bulletin where Ford acknowledged a problem.

I'm gonna give a Ford Super Duty forum a try later today.

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
Give these guys a contact....

https://www.nhtsa.gov

Any motor vehicle that shuts down in traffic due to a fuel issue is a danger.

I used NHTSA years ago against BMW over a fuel leak issue.

Thats an idea, going to research.

The next step should be a sit down with the dealership General Manager. Not the service department manager. This guy is responsible for a half million per month, or more, in sales and service revenue, your $10k repair is a rounding error to him. The service department on the other hand does not want a $10k charge against their P&L. Make an appointment and let him know you expect to discuss every detail from the moment your vehicle arrived at his store. You want every document produced by his department and a record of all communication between the service department and Ford CS and Ford Warranty Department. Yes, make sure he knows this prior to your appointment. This will let him know there is a problem and he will do some research prior to your meeting.

If you don't get what you want from this meeting let him know the next meeting will include your attorney but I doubt it will come to that. He will likely want to solve your problem and move on quickly.

I have a 2015 F350 with almost 100,000 miles on it, so I'm paying attention because I don't want to have problems.

What is a PCV pump and how does it relate to fuel? How does water from contaminated fuel get to this pump such that rust on this pump tells Ford that the fuel had water in it?

Isn't the fuel pump in the fuel tank?
If so, after the fuel pump there's a 5 micron filter in the fuel/water separator and an additional filter at the engine. How would metal shavings from the fuel pump get past both of those filters? I've changed these filters myself. The one by the engine is self contained, the one in the fuel/water separator is a pleated cylinder.

I'll believe contaminated fuel caused the fuel pump to fail, but that wasn't the initial diagnoses, was it?

The fuel/water seperator has wires connected to it. Presumably, these wires are to detect the presence of water in the fuel. Wouldn't the computer keep track of finding water in the fuel system? The OP stated the light never came on. If this check was faulty, wouldn't that and any subsequent damage be a warranty claim?

I don't like when the answer to the problem changes multiple time. It seems as if someone is grasping at straws to deny the claim.

If you don't mind me asking, what does the repair consist of? What has to be done, what parts have to be replaced? What is the breakdown of parts needed, and how much labor to do so?

And how does that add up to $10,500? That seems outrageous.

I "think" the $10,500 must be what I call a "Full Retail Price", and I am sure that Ford will pay a greatly discounted rate from Retail to the dealer of parts and labor cost. OF course Ford is selling the parts to the dealer in the first place.

If worse comes to worst, the very least the dealership should do is sell you the repair at Parts costs and the labor at Internal Rates. Best is Ford foots the bill entirely.

Best wishes to you, good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I have a 2015 F350 with almost 100,000 miles on it, so I'm paying attention because I don't want to have problems.

What is a PCV pump and how does it relate to fuel? How does water from contaminated fuel get to this pump such that rust on this pump tells Ford that the fuel had water in it?

Isn't the fuel pump in the fuel tank?
If so, after the fuel pump there's a 5 micron filter in the fuel/water separator and an additional filter at the engine. How would metal shavings from the fuel pump get past both of those filters? I've changed these filters myself. The one by the engine is self contained, the one in the fuel/water separator is a pleated cylinder.

I'll believe contaminated fuel caused the fuel pump to fail, but that wasn't the initial diagnoses, was it?

The fuel/water seperator has wires connected to it. Presumably, these wires are to detect the presence of water in the fuel. Wouldn't the computer keep track of finding water in the fuel system? The OP stated the light never came on. If this check was faulty, wouldn't that and any subsequent damage be a warranty claim?

I don't like when the answer to the problem changes multiple time. It seems as if someone is grasping at straws to deny the claim.

As I understand it, the high pressure pump is also lubricated by and cooled with diesel fuel. Because of the way it is designed this allows for fuel that was used for cooling and lubrication that has been contaminated by damaged pump pieces to make its way into the fuel rails, injectors and so on. That is where and how they cause so much damage. Several companies make a bypass filter that channels the fuel that was used for cooling and lubrication back to the fuel tank so that it must pass through the fuel filters again before making its way into the fuel rails and injectors.

Here is a link to the replacement parts necessary to fix a damaged fuel system: https://ddsrubicon.com/i-30559...lIKI6CYaAqS6EALw_wcB. As you can see, there are lots of expensive parts that require replacement. Also there’s a lot of time that goes into making the repair, meaning labor costs are also going to be expensive.

The fragility of the CP4 injection pump is the reason why a lot of diesel enthusiasts that modify their vehicles buy kits that allow them to run CP3 injection pumps which are much more rugged and reliable.