Parris Island recruits had a ‘choice’ to go to ‘war’ — here’s what happened:
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH: Marines are supposed to be combatants first and whatever their MOS is second.
I was a soldier, not a Marine. But, I argued with my CO one day on this exact topic. An E-4 arguing with an O-3...how do you think that went?
I told him I was a medic first, then a soldier. He disagreed. I got out shortly thereafter.
________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
April 30, 2017, 08:31 PM
Sig209
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH: Marines are supposed to be combatants first and whatever their MOS is second.
I was a soldier, not a Marine. But, I argued with my CO one day on this exact topic. An E-4 arguing with an O-3...how do you think that went?
I told him I was a medic first, then a soldier. He disagreed. I got out shortly thereafter.
I have a lot of respect for the USMC. Their battle history speaks for itself.
But - a lot of their mystique is them believing their own bullshit.
And because they rely on the Navy for lots of log support and have a much smaller force - they can maintain a higher combat to non combat ratio of personnel.
------------------------
Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
April 30, 2017, 08:40 PM
ZSMICHAEL
Mind games are stupid. The tried and true approach follows. Note not one curse word just pure Jack Webb
April 30, 2017, 09:30 PM
sigmonkey
If you think "mind games are stupid", you are not smart enough to play.
There are plenty of benches for those so inclined to sit and feed pigeons.
No shame in feeding pigeons.
"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
April 30, 2017, 09:49 PM
mbinky
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer: An E-4 arguing with an O-3...how do you think that went?
Lol depends. I was a Corporal (E4 is a pay grade, Corporal is a rank) arguing with my company XO (1st LT.)
I was the acting maintence chief as my Gunny (E7 was his pay grade ) was at Staff Academy. I knew what I was doing so the BN Master Guns let me ride. The XO and I had a great conversation about maintenance one day. Seems he thought tank mechs should be doing all sorts of things besides fixing tanks. In the end he told me this, and I have taken it as one of the greatest compliments I have ever gotten.
"You can tell anyone to fuck off. As long as you do it with tact. Cpl. Mbinky, you just used tact".
And I got my way.
April 30, 2017, 09:54 PM
wishfull thinker
SIG 209 said
quote:
But - a lot of their mystique is them believing their own bullshit.
Perhaps you could expand on that a bit. If it's just inter-service chest thumping, never mind, but I'm not clear on what you are getting at. You already said their battle history speaks for itself, so...
_______________________
April 30, 2017, 10:36 PM
ZSMICHAEL
quote:
If you think "mind games are stupid", you are not smart enough to play
Disagree. It teaches them the wrong stuff, not to trust their command. It is overly simplistic in my opinion and not the way to work with people. Teamwork is what it is about not some silly exercise that provides some satisfaction to leadership. We can certainly manipulate people with mind games, just not the stupid shit they pulled here with recruits. If you think these are effective tools, you are mistaken. We have a difference of opinion here as to how to effectively work with people. The people that chose to leave should have been effectively screened beforehand. If I recall correctly one of the tenets of the Marine Corps is teamwork.
April 30, 2017, 10:58 PM
mbinky
quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL: Teamwork is what it is about not some silly exercise that provides some satisfaction to leadership.
Although I agree teamwork is a vital part of any mission's success, there is also that most basic aspect. Discipline. Discipline in the USMC is defined as instant obiedience to orders. That is what boot is all about. Obeying orders. Is the USMC as rigid as the Soviet structure? Of course not. Improvise, adapt, overcome is not just a movie line. Every Marine is encouraged, EXPECTED, to know the job of the Marine two ranks higher than him and to be able to step into that role at a moments notice.
This dicipline, this automatic reaction, this faith in the process is what makes Marines successful.
Questioning that process breeds mailaise. Mailiase does not make sucessful Marines. Dicipline does.
So when a recruit decides, before the first shot is even fired, they don't want to be there? I don't want them there.
April 30, 2017, 11:02 PM
ZSMICHAEL
I agree that is why I posted the DI clip.
April 30, 2017, 11:17 PM
mbinky
And I enjoyed it. I was never a hat, but I knew many. My favorite was my friends dad. He was a DI in the late 60's. And let me tell you, he wrote the book on mind games . His mom forbade his son, my good friend, from joing the Corps. He joined the Navy instead. But every time I came home on leave he had a beer for me and greeted me with a handshake
Everything is mind games now adays. Hell they can't haul off and smack you anymore. Well you can, just gotta check for witnesses. It's the only way some people learn, believe me. If you get a real Marine and not a whiner they will take it behind the tank. That's where it is all settled.
I don't mind the exercise, as it will all come out in the wash anyway. I would rather wash them out sooner than later though.
April 30, 2017, 11:24 PM
ZSMICHAEL
Glad you liked the clip. Jack Webb was the real deal. My father ran my childhood just like him. My Dad served in Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge.
April 30, 2017, 11:55 PM
Gustofer
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey: If you think "mind games are stupid", you are not smart enough to play.
Wise words. Boot camp is all about mind games. If you can figure it out you'll be fine. If not? You'll be doing push-ups until you puke.
________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
April 30, 2017, 11:55 PM
mbinky
Ok since there has been all this talk of the Marines, I feel obligated to say a joke.
It’s about the “Old Corps”. Now anyone who has been around the USMC, in any time, has heard about “the Old Corps”. The “Old Corps” was always better. The “Old Corps” was always tougher, stronger, better looking, had faster cars and never got zits.
So anyway…
I set the scene. Nov. 10th, 1775, Tun Tavern PA.
Samuel Nichols is recruiting men for the the newly formed US Marines. A man walks up and wishes to join.
“Excellent” Nichols says, “Show up tomorrow morning on the green out back with your bed roll and rifle”
“Yes sir” the man exclaims as he proudly steps to the bar for a drink.
Nichols calls “next.” Another man steps up wanting to join this thing called the US Marines.
“Great!” Nichols exclaims. “Assemble tomorrow morning on the green out back. Bring your bed roll, we’ll issue you a rifle when you arrive”
Hearing this the man who just signed up puts his beer down and says, “Now that’s fucked up. Back in the Old Corps we had to bring our own rifle”
May 01, 2017, 12:07 AM
wishfull thinker
quote:
Originally posted by mbinky: “Old Corps”.
_______________________
May 01, 2017, 08:27 AM
SgtGold
quote:
Originally posted by 18Z50: SOF training cadre tried this once....ended with both HALO ODA's fist fighting to see which Team got to HALO into the fight.
If your not on a HALO ODA you may miss the joke.
That shit's funny, I don't care who who are!
So who won?
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.
May 01, 2017, 08:50 AM
Alpine79830
quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL: Disagree. It teaches them the wrong stuff, not to trust their command. It is overly simplistic in my opinion and not the way to work with people. Teamwork is what it is about not some silly exercise that provides some satisfaction to leadership. We can certainly manipulate people with mind games, just not the stupid shit they pulled here with recruits. If you think these are effective tools, you are mistaken. We have a difference of opinion here as to how to effectively work with people. The people that chose to leave should have been effectively screened beforehand. If I recall correctly one of the tenets of the Marine Corps is teamwork.
I don't know what branch you are/were associated with but my Army experience taught me that basic training is where the effective screening takes place. If you can't handle the massive amount of mental and physical challenges played out EVERY day you don't need to pass the recruit phase.
I sent a link to the article to my 0311 son and his (edited) reply is, "Personally, this is normal occurance, not just at P.I. It was a training exercise that would prepare the recruits for life in the Fleet. Marines are capable of being anywhere in the world within 24 hours. Sometimes you get advance notice that you are deploying and other times you don't have that luxury. She was "medically" discharged: without completing boot camp you haven't made it past the first training and they don't discharge you; they will however give you a MEDSEP. Boot camp is a time when you are attempting to join the ranks but without completion you aren't really in yet. Almost like a probationary period in the civilian world."
He went through this "hazing" exercise in 2001 and seems to have come out just fine. Like it or not the basic, boot, recruit phase is a way of culling the majority of those that are destined to fail later.
May 01, 2017, 08:57 AM
parabellum
They should pack their shit and GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE US MARINE CORPS!!!!!!
Why In the Holy Hell did they join our killers if they don't have what it takes?? Get the fuck OUT!!!
May 01, 2017, 09:23 AM
Sig209
quote:
Originally posted by wishfull thinker: SIG 209 said
quote:
But - a lot of their mystique is them believing their own bullshit.
Perhaps you could expand on that a bit. If it's just inter-service chest thumping, never mind, but I'm not clear on what you are getting at. You already said their battle history speaks for itself, so...
Short answer is - the typical unenlightened Marine thinks the USMC can do everything. When it fact it can't.
I don't mean that disrespectfully - but like any organization the USMC has it's limitations. Many Marines just don't like to admit it.
They excel at combined arms battles. Their integration of artillery / air and ground is outstanding.
Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
May 01, 2017, 09:26 AM
parabellum
US Marines have one primary purpose in this world. If you want to "opt out" of nutting up and fighting for your country, then why in the fuck did you join the Marine Corps in the first place??
No doubt that I am about to offend someone here, but we DO NOT need any women in the US Marine Corp!!
May 01, 2017, 09:49 AM
ss9961
I was in Army Basic during Operation Just Cause, so they didn't BS us completely. The mind game was telling us that the 82nd was taking 50% losses and we would be deploying soon. A couple of anxious joes who had family memebers in the 82nd but we were otherwise ok
) was at Staff Academy. I knew what I was doing so the BN Master Guns let me ride. The XO and I had a great conversation about maintenance one day. Seems he thought tank mechs should be doing all sorts of things besides fixing tanks. In the end he told me this, and I have taken it as one of the greatest compliments I have ever gotten.
. His mom forbade his son, my good friend, from joing the Corps. He joined the Navy instead. But every time I came home on leave he had a beer for me and greeted me with a handshake 