What about the other 20%? The ones who aren’t constantly drug seeking for higher doses? Who just want a little pain relief, not seeking hillbilly heroin. Don’t lump everyone together.
Did you mean Oxycodone or OxyContin? I realize they basically are the same but ones short acting, 1 long acting. Again, don’t lump everyone together.
I see people NOT having chronic debilitating pain, thinking they understand the problem. They do not.

I love where this is going - we can't get the treatment for the condition that's causing us pain, can't afford it when we do get in, and can't get treatment for the pain, either.

I've gone through all this before. I have chronic sinusitis, that IF I had surgery for, would only have a 50/50 chance of working (and would require schedule drugs at some point). So I use Claritin D to relieve the symptoms (along with 600 mg of Advil). Originally it was a prescription, then over the counter, and now I have to go through more hoops than when it was a prescription to get it, because people use it to make meth. Now I haven't seen any reduction in the meth addiction stats, but it sure is harder to get a med I need to function when my sinuses flare up.

I predict the exact same success with opioids.

It is a complicated issue. Many physicians become addicted to opiates as well. The highest rate of addiction is Anesthesiology. Physicians and nurses have the keys to the medicine cabinet so to speak
A physician friend of mine became addicted to Lortabs after a motor vehicle accident produced severe cervical pain. He found that he could continue to work while taking Lortabs and ending up taking quite a few to make it through the day. He saw more patients than ever before. He ended up going for treatment in Las Vegas to a residential treatment center that deals with chronic pain and opiate addiction. He has been off opiates for five years now and is pain free. He was forced to go for treatment if he wanted to keep his Medical License. Five years of monitoring by the State Medical Board with weekly drug testing and a mandatory 90 day residential treatment program.

Chronic pain management is complex, but there are options for pain management that use methods other than drugs.

Excellent ideas discussed here. I am glad to see people are paying attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigfest:
What about the other 20%? The ones who aren’t constantly drug seeking for higher doses? Who just want a little pain relief, not seeking hillbilly heroin. Don’t lump everyone together.
Did you mean Oxycodone or OxyContin? I realize they basically are the same but ones short acting, 1 long acting. Again, don’t lump everyone together.
I see people NOT having chronic debilitating pain, thinking they understand the problem. They do not.

For the other 20%, I guess it's not a problem if you take them as described and once a week stop by your local drugstore and pick up your subscription, just like putting gas in your car......

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
I love where this is going - we can't get the treatment for the condition that's causing us pain, can't afford it when we do get in, and can't get treatment for the pain, either.
I've gone through all this before. I have chronic sinusitis, that IF I had surgery for, would only have a 50/50 chance of working (and would require schedule drugs at some point). So I use Claritin D to relieve the symptoms (along with 600 mg of Advil). Originally it was a prescription, then over the counter, and now I have to go through more hoops than when it was a prescription to get it, because people use it to make meth. Now I haven't seen any reduction in the meth addiction stats, but it sure is harder to get a med I need to function when my sinuses flare up.
I predict the exact same success with opioids.

I predict you're exactly right.
I joked with the pharmacist I had to give my ID to in order to get generic sudafed that the .gov program is working just GREAT!
I have to jump through hoops and am limited on how many sudafed I buy. Not because I'm cooking speed, because some fucking bureaucrap decided to limit how many decongestants I can get....and meth is more prominent than ever, is more pure and has gotten cheaper!
Maybe there is an easy way to precipitate out sudafed from readily available methamphetamine.

Back on the original topic - Doctors CANNOT tell you how much pain you will experience from procedure XX.
They can tell you what the general norm is but not all patients fit into the same box. The ortho who replaced my knee said, "I've done hundreds of these." I told him that I personally know male OB docs who have delivered hundreds of babies but not one swinging dick can tell you what it feels like.

I just want to be able to get some real cough syrup the 2 times a year I have to suffer with hacking my head off until I vomit for a week or two.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:

quote:

People in America are simply pussies when it comes to pain. Anywhere else in the world after surgery you get a prescription for ibuprofen 800 and a boot in the ass at the door

Perhaps one of the dumbest comments I have read on the forum.
Why would one not relieve incapacitating severe pain during recovery from surgery ?

Because a large percentage of these people are still taking narcotics a year later without missing a beat. Back surgery is a perfect example. More often then not people who undergo invasive back surgery remain on narcotics indefinitely afterwards. As stated above, pain is a part of life. I have had multiple surgeries and never even filled any of my narcotic prescriptions. It can be done. Americans simply chose not to. This is evidenced by the difference in rates of narcotic prescriptions between the US and other developed countries. 80% of the worlds opiate prescriptions are written in the the US. Western Europe and Canada make up for another 15% while the rest of the entire world makes up for the remaining 5%. What does that tell you?
<snip>

I suspect shady numbers drafted by someone with an agenda. What it tells me is they haven't taken into account that much of the worlds population doesn't even have access to medical treatment let alone prescriptions. Sub-saharan Africa has a bunch of countries with less than 1 doc per 1000 pts. Some countries don't even require prescriptions for much of anything. Want it? Buy it over the counter.
False flag.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:I am quite surprised that a physician doesn't approve of relieving intense debilitating pain during recovery from surgery.

I really don't think any of our physicians (or CVS) is saying that. For the overwhelming majority of individuals, 3-7 days of pain meds are more than enough after surgery. If it's needed beyond that, a visit with the surgeon and a new Rx will get you past the new policy.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:I am quite surprised that a physician doesn't approve of relieving intense debilitating pain during recovery from surgery.

I really don't think any of our physicians (or CVS) is saying that. For the overwhelming majority of individuals, 3-7 days of pain meds are more than enough after surgery. If it's needed beyond that, a visit with the surgeon and a new Rx will get you past the new policy.

This. You should not be hurting so bad that OTC meds won't take care of it 3-7 days post-op. If you are, you need to see your surgeon.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Because Opiates are NOT a long term pain solution, they are a narcotic. For 80% of people, the doses would go from 2 per day to 20 per day to keep the same pain relieving in 2-3 years. Opiates are highly addictive and their very nature require larger and larger doses as time goes on due to the way the body quickly builds a tolerance to them. There are other pain medications that are much better long term solutions. While not as powerful as OxyContin, they provide still provide a good amount of relief.

Benzo's are also highly addictive and after most people have been on them a year their effects are useless, and dosages need to be substantial at that point.

You are full of shit regarding long-term chronic pain sufferers needing to up their dosage that drastically. I've got 3 torn discs and have been on a pain contract for over a decade. My dosage hasn't increased in years and in fact has gone down during the past year.

the upping in dosage is what happens when you try to "get high" off the meds. It has nothing to do with pain relief.

YES - in the first month or two, the doctor has to adjust the meds (maybe upwards) to reach the right therapeutic dose. After that it's very stable.

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Because Opiates are NOT a long term pain solution, they are a narcotic. For 80% of people, the doses would go from 2 per day to 20 per day to keep the same pain relieving in 2-3 years. Opiates are highly addictive and their very nature require larger and larger doses as time goes on due to the way the body quickly builds a tolerance to them. There are other pain medications that are much better long term solutions. While not as powerful as OxyContin, they provide still provide a good amount of relief.

Benzo's are also highly addictive and after most people have been on them a year their effects are useless, and dosages need to be substantial at that point.

You are full of shit regarding long-term chronic pain sufferers needing to up their dosage that drastically. I've got 3 torn discs and have been on a pain contract for over a decade. My dosage hasn't increased in years and in fact has gone down during the past year.

the upping in dosage is what happens when you try to "get high" off the meds. It has nothing to do with pain relief.

YES - in the first month or two, the doctor has to adjust the meds (maybe upwards) to reach the right therapeutic dose. After that it's very stable.

Great, you fall into the 20%.

This is not the case for the other 80%.

After thinking about the last statement for awhile I had to add one more thing.

The addictive gene affects 20% of the population. Not 80%. It seems the above %s are reversed. Probably just an oversight but significant enough to need clarifying.

Now if you have a town with a population of 10K, that’s 2K people with some kind of possible substance abuse issue. That’s a lot. But remember 8K are not be affected. That’s a lot of people who don’t cause problems, don’t scam the system, and aren’t abusing their meds. Plenty of good people to go along with the bad. But we all the know the bad apples get the press, and are the ones we remember. Don’t throw the legit needs of the many under the bus, and let it be tainted by the few.

There are actually 2 issues here, acute pain needs and chronic pain needs. Both should be addressed by the proper specialties. They are different needs.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigfest:The addictive gene affects 20% of the population. Not 80%. It seems the above %s are reversed. Probably just an oversight but significant enough to need clarifying.

My daughter is currently in a Master's program for Chemical Dependency and Addiction Counseling. She said the current line of thinking is that no addiction gene exists.