I bet 50% of people couldn't point to Japan on a map.

Make public education great again.

After Japan surrendered, there were legitimate fears that 1 million Japanese could starve and/or freeze to death in the coming winter. We did MASSIVE humanitarian deliveries of food, medicine, and coal to prevent this. We helped Japan return hundreds of thousands of troops all across the Pacific to operate the coal mines and farms. Disaster was averted.

Now, consider if the war HADN'T ended in August. At a minimum, the allies would have implemented months of the most savage air and sea blockade known to man. Aircraft would have roamed across Japan destroying anything that moved. Japan was not self-sufficient - they needed imports just to survive. MILLIONS would have died that first winter, without even a single allied troop setting foot on Japan.

Japan should thank God for the bombs, for it was only atomic weapons that convinced the emperor to directly intervene and stop the war.

The more idiotic answer is that most of those asked think nuclear weapons have made the world less safe.

The longest peace between major powers in Europe and East Asia in history. The Ukraine war has not turned into a world war, neither did Korea and the other proxy wars. I could go on, but without nukes we would have had a lot more wars in the past 80 years, and a lot more death.

I'm not interested in the opinions of the ignorant.

You won't find one person in a hundred in this country who could describe conditions in the PTO in 1945, and who could tell you anything about the alternative to dropping the bombs. They wouldn't be able to accurately cite estimated casualty figures for the invasion of mainland Japan, nor the data upon which those figures was based.

They couldn't tell you the attitudes of the Japanese military establishment on the subject of surrender, nor tell you about the things the Japanese civilian population was being trained for and was prepared to do. They certainly have no clue about the millions of deaths which would have resulted from the invasion of mainland Japan.

To say I have contempt for the opinions of the ignorant on this subject is putting it mildly.

Presentism fallacy - The error of judging past events, actions, or people by the moral, cultural, or intellectual standards of the present.

Not unlike slavery or the Indian wars.

15 minutes listening to Victor Davis Hansen will convince anyone but imbeciles and lunatics that the nuclear bombs were the least deadly option. Those bombs saved hundreds of thousands of Japanese lives; men, women and children.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
It's all just academic until it is your own skin, or your kids' skin, on the line.

^^^ BINGO!

Most people just want to yell and bitch about stuff.
“Somebody do something!”
Then cry that it wasn’t done the way they thought it should have been done.

It's just an effect of the left bleating about how "racist" the U.S. is for decades.

The U.S. is so racist it is the #1 destination for immigration from "everywhere". Apparently, we aren't doing racism very well.

We shouldn't have stopped at just two.

One of the only things my father ever told me about WW2(in 1944 he was CPL 4th Marines), which he generally refused to talk about: "I don't think I would be here were it not for those bombs".

I was probably 14 when he said that and really didn't completely understand what he meant by that. Later in my life, after he'd passed away, I figured it out...

That could also be worded:

"No informed Americans still have mixed feelings re our use of nukes in WW2"

My Father was a Marine stationed on Tinian waiting for the invasion of Japan.
He took pictures of the dead Japanese that he and others were sent into the hills to burn out from caves. One Japanese sniper blew my fathers best friends head off while he was talking with my Dad.
My Dad described the loading and take off of the A bomb from Tinian and the talk of the flight crew as to how they were going to end the War.
He also talked of the massive build up of supplies and equipment on Tinian for the invasion and the gloom and doom reporting of how many waves of Americans were expected to be lost in the invasion.
Any mention, to the day he died of the idea of not dropping the A bomb would get him livid.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: armored,

quote:

15 minutes listening to Victor Davis Hansen will convince anyone but imbeciles and lunatics that the nuclear bombs were the least deadly option. Those bombs saved hundreds of thousands of Japanese lives; men, women and children.

^^^^^^^^^^^
His dad flew B29s over Japan prior to the A bomb. He said they gave his Dad Benzadrine to stay awake. It took him years to get off the drug. Curtis Lemay firebombed most of Japan and they still did not surrender. My Dad was on a troop ship heading for the invasion when the A bomb dropped. He was with the occupation forces near Yokahama. The troops were tasked with gathering weapons from the civilian population. The more weapons you procured the sooner you got to go home. In those days you could bring back samarai swords,pistols and rifles.

Not only that, but the Soviets were poised to invade Japan from the North. It would have been a bloodbath. The Japanese people believed their emperor was a living god. They were eager to sacrifice themselves for him. The allied forces would have had to kill freaking everyone and by then we were so desperate for peace we would have done it with prejudice. They should be grateful it only took two nukes.

My feelings aren't mixed at all.

Those rabid fanatics raped and murdered millions of people, including captured allied POWs. They also attacked us in peacetime, and would have killed countless more Americans if we'd had to invade.

Not only was it the only practical decision, they brought it upon themselves. The loss of life was appalling, and I wish it hadn't been necessary, but given the circumstances created by Japan it was absolutely the right thing to do.

I may have lost two Uncles if there was an invasion. My father was in Germany.

quote:

Americans still have mixed feelings re our use of nukes in WW2

FFS, far too many jackasses think the world revolves around their feelings. Those that do are long on feelings and short on knowledge.

As others have stated, the nukes saved lives and ended the war faster.

Here's a good and detailed article covering the proposed invasion plans, including what would have been a disaster for the initial part on November 1, when an unexpected typhoon hit the area.

https://www.history.navy.mil/a...ram-057/h-057-1.html

On a different note, I'd be curious how many of those polled had any idea what decade the bombings took place, and in which war.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:
One of the only things my father ever told me about WW2(in 1944 he was CPL 4th Marines), which he generally refused to talk about: "I don't think I would be here were it not for those bombs".

I was probably 14 when he said that and really didn't completely understand what he meant by that. Later in my life, after he'd passed away, I figured it out...

The WWII vets from the pacific theater that I have spoken with over the years echoed the same sentiment. As a student of history and someone who has always been fascinated by WWII I agree with them.

It is my opinion that many of us posting on this forum would not be alive if those bombs had not been dropped.

Did the Nagasaki bomber ‘miss’ on purpose to save lives?
Nagasaki was not the original target, and the bomb fell miles from its heavily populated centre. An investigation throws the official explanation into doubt

Kermit Beahan, bomb-aimer on the B29 holds a picture of The Great Artiste, an instrument-carrying aircraft named in reference to his bombing talents. He also shows a photo he took of the bomb blast
EVERETT COLLECTION/BRIDGEMAN IMAGES
Bernard Clark
Saturday August 02 2025, 7.00pm BST, The Sunday Times

Few people have heard of Captain Kermit Beahan.

Beahan was the bomb-aimer on the B29 that dropped the plutonium bomb, known as Fat Man, on Nagasaki on August 9, 1945, an act that ended possibly the cruellest war in history.

Except that he didn’t drop Fat Man on Nagasaki: He dropped it to the north, 2.18 miles short of the city –— on tennis courts belonging to the managing director of Mitsubishi, next to what had been the largest Roman Catholic cathedral in Japan, in the hilly suburb of Urakami.

Because of Beahan’s “near miss”, much of the blast went over the city or was absorbed by the hills, thereby preventing a much larger loss of life. Indeed, a centre-of-Nagasaki “bulls-eye” would have killed a hundred thousand — but the final count, six months later, was thirty-eight thousand.

That is still a horrendously large number of deaths, but the story behind Beahan’s near-miss may be one of the most humane acts in the long history of warfare.

It was never intended to bomb Nagasaki — it was the secondary target. The primary target was a factory in the city of Kokura, then surrounded by the highly populated industrial cities of Yawata and Tobata. Had Beahan dropped the bomb there, as planned, there would have been an estimated 300,000 casualties.

President Truman had ordered that the bomb could only be dropped visually — Beahan had to be able to see the target. The army air force had two weather aircraft over Kokura, and both reported a tenth of cloud — essentially a sunny sky, so there should have been no impediment to a visual drop. But that’s not what happened.


In 1999, while researching my novel and ten years after Beahan died, I visited his son, also called Kermit Beahan, in Houston. Then just retiring as an F1-11 pilot in the US air force, he was welcoming and intensely proud of his late father. He gave me a transcript of the intercom chatter of the whole bomb run, from take-off on the island of Tinian, part of the Northern Mariana Islands, to a semi-crash landing on Okinawa island.

The verbatim record was written by Abe Spitzer, the radio operator, who was mystified as to why Kermit hadn’t just dropped the bomb on Kokura in what appeared to be cloudless sky.

As the B29 approached Kokura, the population of 600,000 below carried on as normal, with no idea that the most lethal bomb ever used was hanging by a thread above their city, over their lives.

Captain Kermit Beahan waving from a B-29 bomber after a flight from Japan.
After Beahan dropped the bomb short of Nagasaki, he was heard to utter, “Never again”
Beahan climbed down to the bomb aimer’s position, lying flat under the cockpit, the aircraft steadied, the bomb bay doors opened, the pilot, Major Charles Sweeney announced, “it’s all yours, Beahan, over to you.”

While preparing to make the sharpest possible turn to flee from the blast, Sweeney shouted, “All you men make damned sure you have your welding goggles on, I don’t want any blind men on my crew.”

And then, according to the intercom transcript, from the nose of the aircraft came Beahan’s cry:

“Goddam to hell, no drop, no drop! I can’t see the goddam target! There’s cloud over the goddammed, goddamned target!”

Beahan was insisting that cloud cover prevented him from releasing the bomb.

Three times, the B29 made its bomb run, three times, lying flat in his aimer’s position, Beahan refused to release the bomb. “Goddam, goddam, no visual! No drop, no drop, no drop!”

With Japanese fighters now climbing fast, Sweeney, low on fuel, set course for the secondary target of Nagasaki, 130 miles away. The population of Kokura had no idea how close it had come to obliteration.

A furious discussion erupted on the plane. At this point cloud had started to gather. If Beahan couldn’t see the ground over Nagasaki, several on board argued to Commander Frederick Ashworth, the US navy’s strategic director of the drop, that he should overrule Truman and agree to a radar drop — meaning cloud cover would not be an issue — at Nagasaki.

Eventually, Ashworth gave way. Famed for being able to “drop on a dime”, Beahan would be allowed to use radar instead of a visual drop. Given that Nagasaki was a V-shaped port, and the centre easily located on radar, there was little doubt this would work.

As the aircraft swung in across the sea, man became God that morning, while the population of Nagasaki below were beginning to think about lunch.

Clouds did hide the ground, but it no longer mattered; with only enough fuel for a single run, using radar Beahan could plant the bomb on the apex of the V; the blast would be contained by the surrounding hills, the result would be lethal, widespread carnage.

Then three miles out, with dense cloud below, as the bomb doors were opened, all twelve men on the aircraft heard that familiar voice again.

Photo of the Boeing B-29 Bockscar crew, two days after the Nagasaki mission.
The crew of the B29 Bockscar that dropped a Fat Man nuclear weapon on Nagasaki. Kermit Beahan is fifth from left, next to the pilot, Charles Sweeney
“Bear right”, Beahan called to Sweeney, “A target has become apparent.”

The pilot duly banked the plane to starboard, advancing on Nagasaki’s much less populated suburb of Urakami.

“I’ve got it. Believe it or not, I’ve got it. The stadium. There’s a hole in the clouds, I can see a target.” Kermit began laughing. “Yes, sir, I’ve got it.”

Suddenly, there was a technical glitch — the electronic switch that controlled the delivery of the bomb was malfunctioning. Beahan had to release the bomb manually. He reached up to an iron bar above his shoulder and pulled sharply down.

At 10.58, the B29 jolted sharply upwards as Fat Man dropped smoothly from her belly, 2.18 miles from the centre of Nagasaki. Beahan laughed. “Holy mother of Jesus,” he said quietly, “Holy mother of Jesus.” And as the crew cheered and clapped with relief, Beahan mumbled over the intercom, loud enough for everyone to hear. “Never again,” he said. “Never, ever again.”

Black and white photo of the atomic bomb "Fat Man" being prepared for transport.
The Fat Man was a plutonium bomb significantly more powerful than the uranium bomb dropped on Hiroshima
GETTY
That day, Thursday August 9, 1945, was Kermit Beahan’s 27th birthday.

Was his personal birthday present to humanity to turn a Nelsonian blind eye to clear skies at Kokura, and deliberately drop the bomb to one side of the secondary target at Nagasaki? A clue to the answer comes from an unexpected source.

When I stayed overnight with Kermit Jr, we discussed his father’s near miss.

“I can tell you one thing about that,” he said, “one thing for sure. My father was dedicated to the air force and also dedicated to following orders. Whatever Dad did, he did because a senior officer told him.”

So, the question: Did a single bombardier, Captain Kermit Beahan, having seen the carnage of Hiroshima a few days earlier on August 6, decide himself to drop the fantastically destructive bomb to the side of the secondary target? Or, did someone very senior order him to?

The nearest we may get to an answer is the radio message sent ten minutes after the B29 had survived the ensuing massive atomic shockwave.

“Results technically successful; but other factors make conference necessary before taking further steps.”

Though the war was in its final throes, the fanatical brigadier general in charge of bombing Japan, Curtis LeMay, was set on killing as many Japanese as possible, and was outraged at the relatively limited carnage of Nagasaki. LeMay’s anger led to alternative scenarios to justify why Fat Man hadn’t killed hundreds of thousands more people — mainly cloud cover.

I spent a week in the archives at the Library of Congress in Washington DC and delved deep into weather reports, wind directions, written orders, interviews and debriefs. While it was possible to discern a half-hearted postwar cover up, none of the suggestions of cloud cover or smoke blowing over the target were at all convincing. Beahan’s actions were either self-determined or ordered. In other words, there was no cloud cover that day at Kokura.

Truman was deeply appalled at the huge loss of life at Hiroshima. Possibly he used one of several back channels to bypass LeMay, and communicated directly with General Farrell, the chief of field operations, on the island of Tinian before the B29 took off. But as with so many conundrums of history we will probably never know.

Photo of the atomic bomb explosion over Nagasaki, Japan, during World War II.
Although the devastation caused at Nagasaki, above, killed tens of thousands, it was nothing compared with the Hiroshima bombing, days before, which was reported to have “deeply appalled” President Truman
ALAMY
In a deserted cemetery in Urakami there is a memorial marble with etched kanji to victims of the A-bomb, including extended families ranging from children aged two to 75-year-olds, all with the date of death of August 9, 1945.

By accident or intent, one thing we do know: despite Nagasaki’s tragedy, Kermit Beahan spared Kokura, and instead dropped the most destructive bomb in history well short of the secondary target. As well as killing thousands, he thereby indirectly saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Nagasaki by Bernard Clark is out now from Great Cumberland Publishing (£19.99) LINK