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Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
Dare we hope this means that Erdogan and his party are on the way to being crippled or tossed out? Or are the "Take Turkey Back To The Middle Ages And Give Putin A Hummer While We're At It" crowd even now plotting to get rid of elections in order to stay in power?
Sentences compiled into paragraphs for space. Original text at http://www.yahoo.com/news/ista...beats-154900466.html Yeah, so Erdogan's still got a few cards to play. Three things get me, though. One, the AKP has been in power for, what, 17 years? Some voters may be willing to try something different. Two, losses in the city both reverse the process by which the AKP came to power (they had a rural power base and eventually took over the cities before taking over the national government) AND give the opposition the patronage opportunities and public limelight that the AKP needed to eventually bring Erdogan to power nationally. The big difference is that this time around, Erdogan and Co. don't have the Gulenists (particularly in schools and as judges in the court system) to back Erdogan up. Three, the AKP's feet of clay are showing - if the opposition can win in Ankara and Istanbul (Erdogan's old stomping grounds, incidentally), then opposition candidates are not only going to be emboldened to run but have every reason to campaign more confidently. | ||
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Member |
I am not well versed in how Turkish politics works. The S-400, S-500, F35, Sissi approach, Syrian policy, Kurdish policy and seeming realignment under Erdogan seems worrisome. Is there a prospect, with the election, for a more pluralistic Turkey reemerging? _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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Member |
Erdogan did the same thing Putin did. Was prime minister when that was the position with power. Then changed the Constitution so that the president has the power, then became president. The citizenry allowed this to happen. It's all well and good to defeat his party in Istanbul, but outside of the city I think his support is still strong. Given the history of the Turkish republic, most likely scenario in my mind is for the opposition to gain a bit more power and then try another coup. Although after he put down the last one I think he purged most of the upper echelon of the military so maybe not. Turkey is a good example of what happens when you move away from secular republican principles. | |||
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goodheart |
Link _________________________ “Remember, remember the fifth of November!" | |||
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Big Stack |
Eddogan isn't going away until he's removed by force. | |||
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Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
^^^ I'm tempted to believe you, but if there's such a thing as an election majority large enough to make it impossible to steal the election, then I've gotta wonder whether that's true. | |||
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Ammoholic |
Headed to Istanbul in a month, ought to be interesting, NRA Patron Member, Instructor and CRSO NC CCH Instructor GRNC Life Member VCDL Member | |||
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Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
I'd love to hear from you here when you get back - particularly about how freely people who don't like Erdogan or the AKP will criticize them in public. All of the news stories I run across seem to create the impression that the AKP was slowly cutting off not only access to political control but freedom of action to those who disagree. Maybe it's not entirely that bad, or maybe the AKP doesn't really exercise that degree of control? | |||
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Wait, what? |
Perhaps another coup attempt is on the way; you know, so the will of the people will endure. Turkey needs to be gone from NATO. “Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown | |||
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Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
There's more than one kind of transition of power, and we've all seen a coup play all too neatly into the hands of not just Erdogan but Maduro in Venezuela. The Turks may be of the opinion that there's still life left in the ballot box approach. From today's Wall Street Journal, "Opposition Takes Istanbul In Vote Rerun" by David Gauthier-Villars, pg. A6:
Erdogan's losing financial support abroad, popular support at home, and the battle to keep the economy healthy - particularly at a time when he's at war with the Kurds as well as trying to direct outcomes in the war in Syria (and banging heads with his erstwhile friends, the Russians, in the process). Erdogan's had the chutzpah to overturn elections and manipulate the courts and the legislature enough to allow extralegal crackdowns on inoffensive Turks. Now, all of the sudden, he's congratulating a political opponent on taking the top slot in Istanbul and consoling himself and his followers with vague arguments that AKP members in other offices in Istanbul can keep Imamoglu and other non-AKP politicians from doing anything significant. Maybe Erdogan's right, and playing this right (for him), but some people might be smelling a shift in momentum. | |||
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Member |
Almost. ____________________ | |||
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Member |
? I don't get the point. This isn't a thread about American politics. | |||
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Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
And now Erdogan seems to be facing challenges from the Turkish Right and from within the AKP itself.
Some compression for space, original text at http://www.yahoo.com/news/form...slams-151015861.html The nice thing about chaos is that you never know what'll pop up. Oh, and there was one fun additional note in the article - apparently Erdogan's BS about terrorism and the Kurds ain't cuttin' any political ice. It's impossible to say that something good will absolutely happen, but the Scourge Of The Sheep is clearly in trouble. | |||
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Member |
But is the emerging voice moving toward pluralism or a more regressive Islamic state? _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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Member |
Erdogan, at the beginning , was seen as, perhaps, wanting to be the Caliph ruler of a restored Ottoman empire, exercising control over all the middle east. LINK Yet, just a few days ago, President Trump spoke well of him and hoped to have a continuing partnership. Could it be that Erdogan is the most pro-western of the lot in Turkey? I'm so glad the United States is not trying to affect their elections - what with all our principles and all. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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Dinosaur |
I guess one could argue that he’s the most pro-western guy he hasn’t jailed on trumped up charges. | |||
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Member |
Don't get me wrong. I don't like Erdogan but maybe President Trump knows more than we do about what is going on. Is it that we could wind up with worse for our bases and interests? I don't know and was wondering if anyone else did. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
One could also argue that the more hamstrung and under threat he is, the more pro-western he's likely to be. He knows perfectly well that he's more likely to come out ahead by cutting a deal with the West than he would be by cutting a deal with the Russians. He also knows by now that cutting deals with the Russians hasn't given him any effective leverage in negotiations with the West, and who in the hell wants to be locked away in a geopolitical space where he only has Putin for company? | |||
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Member |
Turkey & Spain are where the Russian wealthy park their money. __________________________________________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit! Sigs Owned - A Bunch | |||
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Dinosaur |
Why park cash in Turkey considering the Turkish Lira’s record for losing value? Many Turks find that stashing dollars in the proverbial mattress beats putting lira in the bank. | |||
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