i have only bought a few new cars. But I will never pay msrp for one, never.


As mentioned, use costco=not paying msrp.
Sure you might need to wait a bit, so what.

And that is the simplest option, there are others.

If you buy into "the sky is falling". Then you do have a low ceiling. Just say'in.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
But I will never pay msrp for one, never.

As mentioned, use costco=not paying msrp.

Paid MSRP on the last two new cars we've bought which was normal based on what marques they are. All depends on what you're buying.

Costco buying service isn't gonna discount on many things.

Not exactly. Many talk about Toyota and Honda. I know a Honda sales person. We may buy one in the future. She knows I will not pay msrp. She has told me she will help me when I am ready. And she also knows I am not overpaying for a new car, suv. I did not on the last one she sold me.

I looked at a brand new Camry AWD. New on the lot. It was advertised well below msrp. I was tempted but declined.

You can work a deal. It is easier just to buy into "You are going to have to pay the price if you can find one". That is not my way of thinking.

All depends on what you're buying my friend. Tesla = no negotiating price for example.

Well, no one with a half a brain would be looking to buy one of those

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Well, no one with a half a brain would be looking to buy one of those

You're right, takes a full-brain to realize nearly maintenance free is a great thing for an "around town" type car. It's been great for 2.5yrs now including a bunch of regional trips several states away.

And like most owners who enjoy all the gawking they get thinking man she thinks I am so cool. When in reality most like me who think what a idiot buying into such a racket. More money than sense. But there is lots of that these days.

If you want that Toyota best get it now, Toyota is finally getting hit with the chip issue, supply there are going to dry up. Nephew manages a Toyota Dealer, says the big problem has been transport, Toyota can't get the product to him,

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
And like most owners who enjoy all the gawking they get thinking man she thinks I am so cool. When in reality most like me who think what a idiot buying into such a racket. More money than sense. But there is lots of that these days.

Funny thing about your assumptions is that a) it’s my wife’s and b) she sold a very nice 1yr old BMW 440IX Gran Coupe to get it (which got 100x more attention). And all the hate for the brand from old fudds won’t negate the lower TCO over time.

"old fudds" Yep, I am after that old diesel work truck. Don't follow to close behind. As you may get some on ya.

My brother was thinking of selling his Porsche and getting a Tesla. After thinking about it, now is looking at the Corvette.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
All depends on what you're buying my friend. Tesla = no negotiating price for example.

Get ready because all the car manufacturers are looking into that program, price the car, no rebates, no dealing, the price is the price. Low inventory on lots, full msrp take what's there on the lot, or place your order...

Dealers love it, they are making way more money now than ever per unit, lower payroll, low carry costs, customers fighting for cars....

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:


Get ready because all the car manufacturers are looking into that program, price the car, no rebates, no dealing, the price is the price. Low inventory on lots, full msrp take what's there on the lot, or place your order...

Dealers love it, they are making way more money now than ever per unit, lower payroll, low carry costs, customers fighting for cars...

It is not something dealers control.
It is their reaction to supply and demand.
All normal in the course of capitalism.
Supply will increase at some point, manufacturers don't want to cut production they want to increase it as you can't sell it if you don't make it first.
The customer will ultimately say what to do by spending or not.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCourage:

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
When does this end?

I can tell you it’s more than a chip shortage. There are huge supply chain and staffing issues throughout the entire manufacturing and shipping process. Originally my customers (car dealers) were telling me mid-september new car levels would start rising. I am not so sure. Plus, many if not most of the new cars on order are already pre sold at least in my market.

It is indeed a massive chip shortage and I should know given what I do for a living. Ford had thousands of trucks in Kentucky at the speedway waiting for chips. This has affected all manufacturers and yes there are other shortages too. The main issue is the chips.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
All depends on what you're buying my friend. Tesla = no negotiating price for example.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Get ready because all the car manufacturers are looking into that program, price the car, no rebates, no dealing, the price is the price. Low inventory on lots, full msrp take what's there on the lot, or place your order...

I welcome it, in fact I advocated it some 20yrs ago while working for a lobbyist for the auto industry on Capitol Hill. Manufacturers have been barred from selling direct due to early 20th Century franchise laws.

Look at the Tesla model....their pricing and configurations very from day to day, week to week. No stale inventory aging out on a dealer lot, no back-end kick-backs to dealers based on volume, etc. Place your order online, configure however you want based on the available options at order, take delivery at your local independent Service Center, arrange financing through them (profit), extended warranty (profit), dealer installed options (profit) or service plans or post-sales service (profit).

In the current antiquated model pre-CoVID shortages, profits on new car sales were razor thin and dealers make all their money on F&I (finance and insurance) and service. In fact, their motivation is to screw you on F&I to make more money (they shop your loan and can negotiate by monthly payment vs. actual approved APR...they get paid on points over what was approved).

It's a HUGE RACKET.

I welcome it's demise with popcorn in hand and a beer in the other.

If manufacturers can sell direct, the market will correct itself. Not selling? Add more content and/or lower the pricing. Selling too many? Adjust content and/or raise pricing.

This is how the modern world works. The auto industry is stuck in 1925.

quote:

Originally posted by HRKealers love it, they are making way more money now than ever per unit, lower payroll, low carry costs, customers fighting for cars....

You're conflating two distinct market forces. Dealers love it because they are setting prices based on lack of supply which means greater profits per unit which is not the same idea as above.

quote:

Originally posted by p08:
Be patient, the chip shortage is easing and soon prices will be back to normal.

The highest capacity auto plant in North America just shut down and sent everyone home for two weeks because of the chip shortage. I'm referring to the Nissan plant in TN, where my BIL works along with almost 9,000 others.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
All depends on what you're buying my friend. Tesla = no negotiating price for example.

Get ready because all the car manufacturers are looking into that program, price the car, no rebates, no dealing, the price is the price...

Like Saturn?

quote:

Originally posted by TomV:
I've been thinking about trading my leased 2020 RAV4 in for a Highlander. Local dealer has a couple but won't deal. Price starts at MSRP plus a $2k "Competitive Market Markup".

It seems to me, living in a country where many Toyotas and Hondas are actually built for European markets, that the dealers have somehow overlooked something with the so-called 'competitive mark-up', which is, here in 'lil ol'Yoorup, classed as illegal business practice.

Without the footfall of customers, there is NO freakin' market, 'competitive or otherwise.

I am thinking in 12 months or so new car deals will be buyer side driven as prices will drop big time. Supply chain will catch up causing HUGE inventories. I am holding on to my 2008 Enclave with 215k miles waiting for that to happen. Hope I am right.

I bought a new 2021 Ford Bronco Sport for $500 under MSRP 5 months ago and it was a pretty easy, smooth deal. They threw in 2 free years of bumper to bumper service to sweeten the deal and gave me KBB for my trade in and yes, I checked before I went in.

Now I'm hearing they get marked up $4K~$8K over MSRP.

Nuts

quote:

I welcome it, in fact I advocated it some 20yrs ago while working for a lobbyist for the auto industry on Capitol Hill. Manufacturers have been barred from selling direct due to early 20th Century franchise laws.

Look at the Tesla model....their pricing and configurations very from day to day, week to week. No stale inventory aging out on a dealer lot, no back-end kick-backs to dealers based on volume, etc. Place your order online, configure however you want based on the available options at order, take delivery at your local independent Service Center, arrange financing through them (profit), extended warranty (profit), dealer installed options (profit) or service plans or post-sales service (profit).

In the current antiquated model pre-CoVID shortages, profits on new car sales were razor thin and dealers make all their money on F&I (finance and insurance) and service. In fact, their motivation is to screw you on F&I to make more money (they shop your loan and can negotiate by monthly payment vs. actual approved APR...they get paid on points over what was approved).

It's a HUGE RACKET.

I don't disagree with the racket perception, in fact it's probably the biggest deterrent to someone buying a car, the sales game. Nobody likes someone getting over on them. The perception is if you go to buy a car you are getting screwed no matter how well you negotiate.

However Nothing I was referencing is along the elimination of dealers that Elon wants to do, so that he doesn't have to share sales revenue which he can't afford. Musk wants dealer rules changed so he can sell direct and pocket 100% of retail.

Ford and GM are talking about changing the way cars are delivered for sale, they will make a minimum number of spec vehicles for the lots, but if you want something specific you have to order.

It's nothing new. GM was taking COPO orders from dealers in the 60's.

Reality is one of the big three will blink, just like OPEC and open up the gates.

Unions will fight it big time, but I'd say gm and ford should do it, cut union jobs to the nub, agree to pay them a couple of billion to take care of the fluff they have on staff, reduce production and eliminate all union issues and expenses of payroll...