Nothing computerized or even electronic on this one. I thought of posting in the Lair.



You won't see that in any new Ford.

As for the Honda Civics, I remember the CRX. It was a little two-door hatchback/coupe and fun to toss around. And you could see out of it, including the back. There was a glassed-in area below the tailgate proper ... a feature also shared with the much-maligned Pontiac Aztek.

my 2023 Foad T-250, bare bones cargo van

standard bluetooth radio, rain sensor wipers, and auto headlamps with auto dimmer
power windows,
collision avoidance on the front and back up camera with the avoidance and trailer helper

electric locks and the foad app on my phone allows me to lock it remotely, or start it, and tells me where it is

and came with 4 keys,,

I recently bought a 2025 Mazda 3 just to get away from a lot of the new tech in cars. Naturally aspirated engine. No power seats, sunroof, adjustable suspension, or huge infotainment screen.

"No power anything, no computerized crap, no electronic sensors. I just want manually rolled down windows, an A/C and a radio."

Sorry but you're more than a decade (or two) too late to find anything like that.
My wife had a 08 RX350, an excellent and reliable car for about 300,000 miles but those sensors were the one continuous issue once they started to go bad.
I'd also find a good independent shop that has the modern tools/electronic gizmos for that car. You can not only save a lot of money, you can get the real story on any other issues as they aren't tied to the mfg. party line.
Finding that place may take a bit of work but they're really just a Toyota from a mechanical standpoint, with nicer trim.

Your only option is to buy a 90’s or earlier vehicle if you want to avoid all the electronics. Good. Low mileage vehicles can be found but you are going to pay premium for them.

Just FYI, a tire pressure measurement system is required to be on all new cars sold in the USA, and it has been that way for close to two decades. It was part of a law called the TREAD act. This is a decent summary of what a compliant system needs to do: https://www.schradertpms.com/e...know-about-tread-act

Now, not all systems must have in-wheel sensors. Some systems just look at the different rotational speeds of each wheel and do some math to figure it out, but those are less common because they aren’t as accurate.

Also, all new cars sold in the USA since around 2018 are required to have backup cameras.

Basically, you aren’t finding something new without at least some electronic doodads on it.

- Bret

There is an assumption underlying this discussion that cars were better before all the electronics. In my opinion, our standards for reliability have changed drastically since the takeover of the market by Japanese and now Korean cars, and the increases in quality by US manufacturers that the market made necessary.

My first car was a Fiat, so that taught me a LOT about car maintenance and repair (did my first valve job with a suction cup valve tool and abrasive compound, instructions from Mechanix Illustrated). I had pretty good cars but frequent problems until we bought our first Japanese Car (Toyota Camry). Since then we’ve mostly owned Hondas and Acuras. I’ve had two situations where the car broke down while driving it: one in a 1986 Integra with a broken timing belt, and this year in a 2018 Accord with a broken fuel pump. In both cases, Honda paid the out-of-warranty cost of the repair.

We keep cars much longer than we used to—my wife’s Odyssey is a 2006, about 180,000 miles. No transmission issues with this one, unlike her 2001. My Accord has had two issues, the fuel pump and a leak in the AC condenser which was a known issue and again Honda extended the warranty for it.

When I was young, if anyone had a car that went 180,000 miles it would have been an obsessive-compulsive mechanic who never did anything but work on the car.

I think it’s been an amazing feat of engineering that manufacturers have continued to adhere to increasingly ridiculous emissions regulations (you can’t kill yourself with car exhaust and a hose anymore, unless you strangle yourself with the hose). Cars have better gas mileage, much much better safety in crashes, better emissions control, more power, better everything except affordability. The latest wave of electronic stuff was active safety, with active cruise control, lane keeping assistance, automatic braking. I won’t go into self-driving here.

When something goes wrong, it’s usually a minor electrical or electronic accessory. Yes, it’s often ridiculously expensive to replace.

Now I still have and love driving my Honda S2000; but even that has the essential electronics (ignition, fuel injection) and emissions control (cat converter), maybe ABS maybe not. And of course a 6speed manual. But I drive it for fun, not to ferry the grandkids around.

There are auto auctions that offer old vehicles
Like you are seeking, and there are a few
Mechanics around that can fully restore them.

Resto remodels are popular cars .yesteryears simplicity
With today's safety, power and comfort and aesthetics aspects.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
No power anything, no computerized crap, no electronic sensors. I just want manually rolled down windows, an A/C and a radio.

Like this one?

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
There is an assumption underlying this discussion that cars were better before all the electronics. In my opinion, our standards for reliability have changed drastically since the takeover of the market by Japanese and now Korean cars, and the increases in quality by US manufacturers that the market made necessary.

I do not think everyone here things that, I certainly do not. Technology has made major improvements in autos. But, the one thing gained by purchasing an older vehicle is the ability to self repair. Manual locks, manual windows, carburetor, manual transmission….. those things do make it easier to work on if the owner is so inclined. It will most likely not be as safe nor have decent fuel economy and new (although there are some outliers).

And there are some older models that are known to be good for 300-500k or more. They are available, if you want to spend 10-40k on something old (just check bringatrailer.com).

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
No power anything, no computerized crap, no electronic sensors. I just want manually rolled down windows, an A/C and a radio.

Like this one?

Or you could buy the original model with no a/c.

I'm of the opinion that vehicles reached their pinnacle between 1998 and 2002 or so.

Just enough electronics and frills to make them comfortable and quick enough, but not so much that they are not user serviceable by a home mechanic.

My elderly mother is still daily driving the 2002 Chevrolet Tahoe she purchase new. Beyond very basic service items it has had zero issues. Not one.

I gifted my 1997 Toyota 4Runner to my brother-in-law. It now has over 300k miles on it. Not one mechanical issue. Still driven daily. I actually wish I had kept it. My buddy at work still drives his nearly identical 1998 4Runner every day. Same deal. Zero issues and his is right around 250k miles right now.

You want basic and reliable? Go find and buy a well cared for Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner from those years. You'll pay a little bit of a premium for a 25 year old vehicle in great condition, but it will literally last you the rest of your life.

A Google search showed since 2007 its a federal requirement for vehicles to have a tire pressure monitoring system.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Nothing computerized or even electronic on this one. I thought of posting in the Lair.

You won't see that in any new Ford.

As for the Honda Civics, I remember the CRX. It was a little two-door hatchback/coupe and fun to toss around. And you could see out of it, including the back. There was a glassed-in area below the tailgate proper ... a feature also shared with the much-maligned Pontiac Aztek.

How does the fuel injection work on the 2nd generation CRX?

Maybe Chevy.
Big Swede might chime in. You might have to order one that way and wait for it.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Nothing computerized or even electronic on this one. I thought of posting in the Lair.

You won't see that in any new Ford.

As for the Honda Civics, I remember the CRX. It was a little two-door hatchback/coupe and fun to toss around. And you could see out of it, including the back. There was a glassed-in area below the tailgate proper ... a feature also shared with the much-maligned Pontiac Aztek.

How does the fuel injection work on the 2nd generation CRX?

1 gen were carbureted and if I recall, the HF model got close to 50 mpg.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

....As for the Honda Civics, I remember the CRX. It was a little two-door hatchback/coupe and fun to toss around. And you could see out of it, including the back. There was a glassed-in area below the tailgate proper ... a feature also shared with the much-maligned Pontiac Aztek.

How does the fuel injection work on the 2nd generation CRX?

I believe FI was first introduced for US Hondas in the 1985 CRX si which was in the 3rd generation of Civics. It was a pretty basic FI, Honda called it Programed Fuel Injection, but it was a big improvement over a carburetor and probably accounted for most if not all of the power increase over the 1,500cc carbureted engines used in other Civics. The SI's engine had 91 hp vs 76 in other Civics with the 1,500 engine. Allow me to digress....

These little cars were hard to find and if you find one on the lot you generally had to give the dealers well more than msrp. In spring 1985 I ordered a CRX SI and with the cconsiderable up front payment of $3,000 and a 2 month wait I was able to buy it at msrp.

At that time with young children I had decided to become responsible and give up motorcycles after 13 years and this little sports car would replace my 1983 BMW R100. I loved driving my SI and although having only 2 seats it had lots of room behind them for practical use. The shifter and steering were precise, 91hp was plenty for the little car that weighed under 1,900 pounds and it just sipped gas. But my favorite thing was what egregore referenced, outside visibility. Sitting in it the whole belt line was low you could comfortable rest your arm down on the door with window down. Looking out the front, the top of the dash was low and above it was the road, the hood sloped down so much you could barely see the top of the hood. I told my wife "looking forward almost gives the feeling of riding a motorcycle".

I had enjoyed that car for two years but really missed riding a motorcycle. One day I was looking out a window when I heard 2 motorcycles riding by, my wife said "you miss your motorcycle don't you". I said "yeah I really like the Civic SI but even it is not as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride". Although I kept the SI for another year, a couple months later (and with my wife's blessing) I was back on two wheels in the form of a new Honda 250 Elite scooter.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Maybe Chevy.
Big Swede might chime in. You might have to order one that way and wait for it.

Not a thing anymore. A basic reg cab 1500 WT Silverado has power locks, windows, mirrors, car play, bluetooth, cruise control, front crash detection, lane departure warning, auto emergency braking, keyless entry, keyless start, backup camera (became required in 2017 or 18), A/C, traction control and the 2.7L turbo 4 cyl


The most basic is the Express van, cruise is optional, an am/fm radio is standard, bluetooth is optional, no safety sensors are standard, keyless entry is optional, still uses a key to start, it has stabilitrak and a 4.3 L V6 is standard

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

you’re looking for a used car or truck made before the Berlin Wall fell.

Lol...any idea where I can get a used Trabant? I'd drive the wheels off that thing!

I've been playing Arma REFORGER a lot and I want a GAZ UAZ 452 or 469.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:



How does the fuel injection work on the 2nd generation CRX?

I didn't say anything about that, but no matter. Honda went EFI (they called it PGM-FI) for all models in 1990. Even when they were new, the 3-bbl. carbureted engines were troublesome and a mechanic's nightmare. I was one of those mechanics.



If I had to take a carburetor off one of those engines, I only disconnected the vacuum lines that directly attached to the carb. If I had to remove the intake manifold to do a head gasket, I unbolted the control boxes (each full of little solenoids and relays directing vacuum), put them aside, and did not disconnect any vacuum lines. Diagram or not, you'd never get them back together. The PGM-FI was simpler and far more reliable.

PGM-FI was not perfect. It had a couple of issues. One was the main relay, a solid state relay under the dash, one side powering the injectors and ignition coil, the other the fuel pump. To make it more fun, this failure of one side or the other was often intermittent. The other was the distributor having the rotor come loose (it was held by a set screw), or seizing up altogether.