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thin skin can't win |
With the repeated threats to Gulf Coast this year it's been an almost monthly or more frequent exercise to move a lot of trucks, equipment and personnel to stage for recovery post storm to electric and other utilities. If you've never lived or traveled on a pathway to the coast, you can predict a hurricane without ever seeing the news just based on the stream of trucks all traveling in one direction. I'm curious who pays the remote utilities for this movement of personnel and equipment. Is it FEMA, the potentially impacted state(s) EMA, the utilities, or someone else? Also, how complex is the pricing for this? I'm assuming there's a big difference in costs for moving a simple HD pickup with lift on back vs. a giant hydraulic utility crane, pole trailer, etc. I'm also assuming the crews being relocated get pay while in transit and on hold at destination? Do utilities send as few people as possible with equipment and fly in crews just prior to storms to reduce payroll costs while in transit? Last thing that came to mind is who the heck is coordinating this, both on the receiving end as well as who/when to call up remote teams? In MS I've seen trucks from as far away as VA this summer, and in years where there are storms aiming at Atlantic coast have seen trucks from TX or further. It all seems incredibly complex and expensive. Figured there's one or more forum people who are in this business and have some insight, and that others might be curious as well. You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02 | ||
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semi-reformed sailor |
When I lived in NC, our town would send bucket trucks and linemen to the areas after an event. The city manager told us that the federal government paid the costs of fuel, lodging and pay while the men were gone. I can assume it comes out of FEMA funding. When we had a tornado destroy part of the town, the State declared the city a disaster area and the police department started having us use a different time sheet for that period. The city recouped the costs of extra cops directing traffic and securing large areas of the city from the state. But if we were on our regularly scheduled shift we filled out the normal time sheet. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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Member |
It is complicated. Having reliable electricity is a health and safety issue. Not having working stoplights is kind of a big deal. The National Guard cannot put soldiers at every intersection. Most jobs require reliable power. Some of the costs are passed on to the consumer, the goverment pays for some. Getting electricity is probably the most important thing in terms of getting things back to normal. The lineman are paid well, and there are always openings. Think of sleeping in a truck after 16 hour shifts. | |||
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Info Guru |
My information will be dated, but I worked at Southern Company (AL Power, GA Power, FPL, Gulf Power, etc) from 1990-2001. The local utility contracts with neighboring state utilities for x number of crews and equipment. Those crews are still paid by their 'home' company, and the affected utility reimburses the home utility for the costs. Those Journeyman lineman make around $50 per hour, $75/hr on OT and $100/hr on Sundays and generally work 16 hour days when on storm duty. They usually travel down with their truck & equipment to pre-position for storms. My understanding is that they get paid for travel time and either food/lodging is already arranged or they get per diem. It is a massive logistical effort that has been fine tuned over time. Those IBEW guys love storms - I know some who made upwards of $25-30K in a month working storm duty. (This is grossly simplified, the accounting behind it is complex), but the affected utility almost always gets a rate adjustment from their state public utility commission to cover the costs of storm restoration - so the ratepayers in the affected area ultimately pay the bill, for the most part. If you want more detail on the accounting hoo-doo, here's a link on a study from 2005 about how utilities account for disasters: https://www.efis.psc.mo.gov/mp...nt.asp?DocId=4048185 The federal gov/FEMA will help some in some municipal or publicly owned utilities, but the big boys generally have to fund disaster accounts, write off the losses or get increases in rates to cover. “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams | |||
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Member |
I suspect, because I was never in the management part of this, that the federal funds flow into the state which I turn distributes funds to the affected utility company(s). As for the remotes, I think they draw from the affected utility company. They’re generally willing to help out as, regardless where they’re located, everyone is subject to mother nature’s whims and will eventually require help. ———- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. | |||
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Member |
Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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Member |
ain't that the truth electricity and clean running water are two things we probably all too often take for granted if i was a young man considering a career -- electrical lineman would be a good one excellent pay / benefits, outdoor work, pride of accomplishment, team oriented, decent job security, etc --------------------- Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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Member |
I don’t know anything about the subject matter but I can tell you the price of not securing the 22 barges used for construction of the new 3 mile bridge in Pensacola that banged off of anything and everything and ended up everywhere including on roadways. | |||
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Member |
I worked for a power ‘transmission and distribution’ company in this area for many years (and now work for the company that bought the power plants from them), and we would send out our trucks and line crews out to areas expecting bad outages from storm related events. It does take a lot of planning and logistical coordination and cooperation as many here have already mentioned, and in addition to that, the crews coming in from out of town would be teamed up with the local crews as the local crews obviously know the area and the local grid, but they were also tied into the ‘callout roster’ and knew where to go based on the severity of the outage and the hierarchy triage of the restoration work. I am not sure how all of the finances and expenses were handled, but I do know that the crews worked extremely hard with many long hours for days and weeks on end as necessary, and they were compensated quite well (and deservedly so). __________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy." | |||
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If you see me running try to keep up |
Sure, as long as you never get electrocuted. An old acquaintance was a lineman in early 2000’s. One of his coworkers got electrocuted and lost an arm. They (two linemen) were doing something against their procedures but something that was common practice. I wish I could recall specifics but I can’t. Both ended up being fired. I work in chemical plants and about 10 years ago one of our high voltage electricians got electrocuted and lost his arm, nearly lost his life. They are not sure what happened but think he either tripped or passed out and fell into high voltage switch gear. He cannot remember how it happened and his coworker was getting a flash suit so never saw it. They were both fired as well as two supervisors. The dangers are real and accidents happen. I personally am not fond of the trade and would prefer many other trades but that’s just me. | |||
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Member |
^^^Second what mrvmax said, I work programming now but for 30 years was a industrial hvac mechanic. We work with 460v on most of our stuff / high current draw among other dangers. Though there are machines that operate on 1200v, those are locked out normally & specialized folks do that repair. I was content at the lower voltage levels. While in USAF, my best buddy was a linesman, I ran with him on after-hour calls in southern Italy - his supervisor was state-side on a family emergency. When there was an outage, he had to have 2-man safety always, hence my shadowing him. Not missing those times at all. The money is good, and safety has improved dramatically, there are lots of folk who enjoy it. I'll be over at the chiller once the power comes back on, thanks. <>< America, Land of the Free - because of the Brave | |||
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Member |
Generally utilities have Mutual Aid Contracts that are used when necessary for restoration. If a utility needs to send workers, vehicles, then the vehicles can be flown by air transport. We have sent Digger Derricks and associated vehicles by air, for example. Sometimes, the vehicles and personnel drive there. Generally Work Camps are set up and that is where the personnel are housed. Generally the affected utility captures the costs and FEMA would provide for the relief. The charges are then settled with the utilities that aided the affected utility. Precise documenting paperwork listing mileage and other considerations are kept during the restoration to settle accounts with FEMA and the aiding utilities. Generally only a limited amount of crews from a utility can be sent to the storm area. So each Mutual Aid utility can still provide for service in their own areas. The costs for aid is very expensive. It's not just personnel, it's personnel, personal benefits, vehicles, fuel, food, tools, etc... Generally the pay is set by local unions, if you are in a union. It would be up to each individual company and associated union to pay overtime and for how many hours each day based on those agreements. Lineman pay can range depending where in the county, but 120K to 250K a year would seem to be about the going rate for a Union A Ticket Lineman. Some Lineman pay is with benefits. Some Lineman take pay without benefits. They generally make more per year. It is also necessary for those utilities expecting a storm have sufficient materials for restoration. It doesn't do any good for a bunch of crews to show up and don't have anything to work with. So poles, materials and associated equipment can be obtained from utilities across the nation by Mutual Aid requests. So you may not have crew availability to assist, but you may have material availability to offer. | |||
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And say my glory was I had such friends. |
I worked with utilities for more than 33 years. The linemen loved ice storms and tornadoes. It meant new pickups were going to be bought in the near future. It also meant hot bunking between the early and late crews. If management could find a hotel near the damage, they would rent as many rooms as possible. Many times the crews were in competition with their customers for those rooms. When the rooms were in short supply, they would move the mattress off the box frame so it could be used as a bed thus providing sleeping space for four linemen. The first days of the rebuild, the crews were heroes to everyone they met. By the end of week two, if not earlier, they were vilified by the folks for taking too long. Many crews working storm damage have meals supplied by other utility workers or contractors so the crews never have to go to restaurants and face the crap from people who don’t understand rebuilds take time. "I don't shoot well, but I shoot often." - Pres. T. Roosevelt | |||
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Member |
MADISON, Iowa — Saturday morning, lineworkers for Alliant Energy in both Iowa and Wisconsin headed south. Nearly 200 employees are heading down to Gulfport, Mississippi, joining multiple aid crews from multiple states to help get the lights back on down there following Hurricane Zeta. Yep. We really appreciate the extra help. Storm was Wednesday night and there are still thousands without electricty. Over a thousand poles down. I had never heard of Alliant Energy before, but glad they are here. | |||
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Member |
I can only add that working at Florida Power and Light Co in Power Delivery, I worked as a Substation Electrician for a few decades and logistics of storm restoration is complex. At FPL we had a huge storm budget for just that, storm duty. Being in Florida that would be expected. Many years of storm restoration duty I could specifically tell you about; Stand-by crews Travel expenses Per Diem Hours worked to include overtime Housing for travel crews Food/Catering Staging areas Job specifics and restoration and much more if asked.. Our Substation dept task were to immediately do assessments, running feeders out and checking the boxes of whats in working shape, and visible hazards and doing some basic clearing of overhead lines "if" safe and basic tasks like if we need to disconnect a customer from the feeder because of the drop to the home was damaged by storm debris. Basically getting the feeder prepared from the Substation out to the end of the feeders so when it was time to start restoring the power, we could get the most customers back in service safely and timely. Then follow-up on the more difficult repairs in order of priority. We traveled locally by our vans to the affected areas in Florida, Upper management staging area support would travel by helicopter, which would be in the air most of the time, surveying damage, and crew support. They even delivered meals by air if we were out in the sticks and would take too much time to return to the staging areas for meals. At the staging areas, I would say they spared no expense to feed our crews and out-of-town support, excellent meals. Only one time did my crew of 2 sleep in our trucks, just due to travel distances from the field to our lodging accommodations. For some local hotels/motels FPL would get their power restored upon arrival to house our crews if needed or possible, no complaints there from the owners. I would say that over all the years of storm restorations, folks were pretty good to us, most patient and often offering us food and water. They were very appreciative of the long and often difficult hours of work in their local areas. Of course, there were the few exceptions that were upset as the days without power gets trying. Heck, I worked for them and after hurricane Andrew in 92' I didn't have power from Aug 24th to Oct 13 at my home, I had that generator running almost constantly. Which brings up my final thought, one of the most dangerous conditions of storm restoration in the overhead feeders were folks that just didn't understand that they were unknowingly back feeding our lines because they didn't think to disconnect from their service. We were aware and would always "fuzz" an overhead line with a high voltage meter, and put grounds on it if we did any proximity work to clear the feeder of debris. We would also test our meter prior to "fuzzing" the line by using a known hot source, likely in a Substation equipment. We were all union IBEW in our Power Delivery dept. The pay and benefits were excellent. My dept also worked our equipment inside the Power Plants, both the Nuclear and outdated Fossil plants. We troubleshooted, repaired, replaced all our Substation equipment, distribution/transmission breakers, switches, capacitor banks, transformers, etc, and all the circuits controlling them. Great job and career, I miss it all the time. After 25yrs I was pushed into retirement by health stuff or I'd likely put in another 10yrs if I could. Godspeed to all who work in storm restoration, it's long and often grueling hours, but the rewards are there. It was nice to be one of the nice guys for a change in the publics eyes. Regards, Will G. | |||
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