SIGforum
Is this Normal Police Procedure?
August 29, 2017, 05:16 PM
cmr076Is this Normal Police Procedure?
The police showed up at my shop today with the tax man(men). Apparently my old partner (that handled all the clerical work, HR type stuff etc.) thought that if you paid yourself the amount you owe in taxes (in addition to your salary, without telling your partners), rather than paying the shops taxes, the government would forgive them (or something?)
anyways, the cops and tax guys show up and threaten to shut the shop down. I told them I was going upstairs to grab the paperwork and they followed me up in a somewhat threatening manner like I was going to flush drugs or something. I explained that I had just taken over these duties 3 days ago and had two huge bins full of unopened mail, invoices, etc. I showed them my office, the bins (the black plastic things in the picture... there are two more FULL ones I haven't touched yet), and showed them that I was actively working my way through it and that I had no idea he had been avoiding making payments. Long story short, we had racked up around 15 THOUSAND dollars in penalties. As we were talking downstairs (very friendly, joking about cars, etc ZERO hostility or escalation), the cop "disarmed" me. I didn't have my hands in my pockets, I wasn't being confrontational, he was in MY shop.
reaching in my pocket without a word:
holding it up saying "I'll be holding onto this for now"
Is this normal? I ended up giving the tax guys $2500 to be done with it, but damn, this thing with the cop just didn't sit right. Maybe on the street, MAYBE (and I still think I'd have an issue with it). But in MY shop, around my employees??
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246R
August 29, 2017, 05:22 PM
H&K-GuyIANAL, but illegal search and seizure laws may not trump their warrant. Maybe someone smarter than I will clarify this for us.
H&K-Guy
August 29, 2017, 05:22 PM
ensigmaticI'd be penning a complaint to the chief and the mayor.
quote:
Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
IANAL, but illegal search and seizure laws may not trump their warrant. Maybe someone smarter than I will clarify this for us.
H&K-Guy
No matter. It was a crappy way to handle it.
This is how cops end up with people
NOT on their side.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher August 29, 2017, 05:29 PM
Balzé HalzéParaphrasing the words of Verbal Kint:
Freakin' cops...
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
August 29, 2017, 05:29 PM
Sig2340 Your image files are setting off Malwarebytes, which is reporting it was a redirect site.
The whole thing smells a bit fishy to me, especially handing over $2500 "to be done with." AFAIK, that ain't the way the tax.gov guys operate.
Are you positive they were legitimate police officers and tax collectors (as in shown their identification and seizure orders).
I can't comment on the cop disarming you other than the way he did it was, IMO, stupid. He should have asked to to remove it from the holster/pocket, unload the pistol, and carefully hand it to him.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
August 29, 2017, 05:36 PM
GeorgeairOutside of the gun issue - that is a bizarre and troubling story.
What specific taxes did they claim you'd not paid, but then were willing to settle up on not just the taxes but an additional $15K in penalties, which in any universe would ONLY accrue on way more in taxes than $2500. Or $25000, unless it was multiple years.
Hell, you don't even specify what government agency this is. State, city, etc.? It's certainly not the IRS, that's not how they roll. You mention taxes that the shop owed the .gov, but not what sort of taxes.
You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02
August 29, 2017, 05:39 PM
Balzé HalzéBesides normal police procedures, is it typical for the irs to personally visit a place a business over tax issues?
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
August 29, 2017, 05:40 PM
smschulzquote:
FYI: Your image files are setting off Malwarebytes, which is reporting it was a redirect site.
Same here.
Not seeing any pics.
quote:
The whole thing smells a bit fishy to me, especially handing over $2500 "to be done with." AFAIK, that ain't the way the tax.gov guys operate.
Agreed, sounds like an illegal shakedown.
August 29, 2017, 05:42 PM
Balzé Halzéquote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
FYI: Your image files are setting off Malwarebytes, which is reporting it was a redirect site.
Same here.
Not seeing any pics.
I see them just fine
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
August 29, 2017, 05:44 PM
BBMWDid they have a warrant? Did they show it too you?
August 29, 2017, 05:50 PM
Georgeairquote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Besides normal police procedures, is it typical for the irs to personally visit a place a business over tax issues?
Not for a $2500 issue, and not without a bunch of blue jackets in tow.
I suspect this is some other tax agency. Or a shakedown by his old partner......
You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02
August 29, 2017, 05:59 PM
rduckworCity business taxes? Certainly not the feds. They
would laugh at $2500. Follow up with the police dept.
Good luck,
RMD
TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
Remember: After the first one, the rest are free.
August 29, 2017, 06:00 PM
justjoeVery fishy.
______________________________________________________
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August 29, 2017, 06:23 PM
BurtonRWquote:
Originally posted by justjoe:
Very fishy.
Extremely! I would definitely be talking to the police about both issues.
-Rob
I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888
A=A August 29, 2017, 06:31 PM
Yanert98Hmmm. I hope you got a receipt and wrote down all the badge numbers and names.
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"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism.." - Thomas Sowell
August 29, 2017, 06:47 PM
RHINOWSOSounds like you need a couple of things
(1) Someone full time to take care of the important "business shit", ie paperwork, taxes, business licenses, etc. If that includes a weekly payout to 'those guys', so be it.
(2) Nobody is coming into my business or home without a warrant.
(3) Even then, I'm likely not talking to them if they have badges and paperwork without a lawyer.
(4) Hope you got a receipt for the $2500.
August 29, 2017, 06:52 PM
ChicagoSigManThis is extremely suspicious. Doesn't seem like IRS would show up with local police. They are a federal agency with their own law enforcement officers (not to mention the FBI). It also seems odd that they would take a payment to settle the matter on the spot. I would think they would have yu send a payment in to the IRS office with the appropriate form.
Maybe they do all that stuff, but I would certianly want to check it out. Call the IRS and inquire about the visit and call the local police as well to verify their participation.
August 29, 2017, 06:55 PM
cmr076quote:
Originally posted by cmr076:
The police showed up at my shop today with the tax man(men). Apparently my old partner (that handled all the clerical work, HR type stuff etc.) thought that if you paid yourself the amount you owe in taxes (in addition to your salary, without telling your partners), rather than paying the shops taxes, the government would forgive them (or something?)
anyways, the cops and tax guys show up and threaten to shut the shop down. I told them I was going upstairs to grab the paperwork and they followed me up in a somewhat threatening manner like I was going to flush drugs or something. I explained that I had just taken over these duties 3 days ago and had two huge bins full of unopened mail, invoices, etc. I showed them my office, the bins (the black plastic things in the picture... there are two more FULL ones I haven't touched yet), and showed them that I was actively working my way through it and that I had no idea he had been avoiding making payments. Long story short, we had racked up around 15 THOUSAND dollars in penalties. As we were talking downstairs (very friendly, joking about cars, etc ZERO hostility or escalation), the cop "disarmed" me. I didn't have my hands in my pockets, I wasn't being confrontational, he was in MY shop.
reaching in my pocket without a word:
holding it up saying "I'll be holding onto this for now"
Is this normal? I ended up giving the tax guys $2500 to be done with it, but damn, this thing with the cop just didn't sit right. Maybe on the street, MAYBE (and I still think I'd have an issue with it). But in MY shop, around my employees??
::edit::
I forgot the pics of the paperwork. The bin on the right is one of a few with shit just JAMMED in it. Ya a long tedious process.
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246R
August 29, 2017, 07:03 PM
EmpireStateDid they have a warrant?
What weapon did he take from you?
August 29, 2017, 07:07 PM
220-9erIf it were me, I'd hand this off to a good CPA to deal with.
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