My 17 yr old took an Embry Riddle Dual Enrollment course and passed the FAA test at the end of the course - now all he needs is the actual flight training - any advice/recommendations on how to safely and economically achieve his goal of getting his private pilot's license?

Key emphasis is on "safely" - It seems the last few weeks we hear of a student and instructor crashing weekly. 2 recent ones were associated with Embry Riddle which I would have thought was a pretty safe option.

Thanks in advance for any advise/recommendations!

I'll defer to V-Tail as he may have more local knowledge being from that area. But, you can do some background investigation at the AOPA site:

AOPA link

Click on the Training Tab and go from there, lot's of good info.

What I suggest is go to your local airport and make some inquiries regarding cost, who they have for instructors, what equipment they use (type/age). You may want to have the instructor fly with you a little (introductory) to get a feel for the instructor (demeanor, etc) and ask for and check references from previous students. What you want is a qualified instructor that has a temperament that will match up with the student. Cost wise, one way you can save some bucks is to buy time in blocks. Some places will give a price break when you buy blocks of time vs paying as you go by the hour.

As said above V-tail is here in CFL and most likely can direct you to the proper connections

Link to V-tails profile

The biggest suggestion I can make is to meet a few instructors and find someone he meshes well with. When I got my Private, I had 6 instructors get hired out from under me to fly with the airlines. I felt like they were all safe and knew what they were talking about. There was one in particular however that I just didn't like, and flying with him became a chore that I didn't look forward to. It all worked out in the end, but I feel like learned a lot less from that instructor just because we weren't on the same page.

Avoid any half price lessons from anyone named Muhammad.

Lots of experience is a good thing. That’s where sound judgment comes from.

The purpose of a flying instructor is to lend you his experience, his judgment, so you can live long enough to get some of your own.

my two cents

I'd look for a Cessna Pilot Training Center as a place to start

also, DO NOT get discouraged if you don't like your first instructor. I went through four different instructors (about 1.5 to 2 hours each) before I had a lesson with one that I just clicked with

An airplane is a noisy environment, shaking and rattling and rolling - in other words its the worst possible learning environment there is, but its what you have to work with

what ended up working for me and my instructor is that we would have a very specific pre-flight briefing on what we need to accomplish that day and what skills we needed to develop

and thats all we worked on, and it didn't matter if it took 45 minutes or 90 minutes - thats all we did that was the focus of that lesson

Cessna was very good about it, and they also have a good student pilot package

also, spend the money and get a membership in AOPA, and sign up for the Flight Training magazine

good luck

I remember my first solo like it was yesterday and it was back in 1976

For what its worth I think that becoming a pilot is a great discipline - teaches focus and confidence and decision making skills that can literally be life and death

a mile of road gets you a mile, a mile of runway can get you almost anywhere

Another vote for getting in touch with VTail.
IIRC, he knows a few instructors, and I believe is a CFII, so likely knows the right people.

I do miss flying & wish I'd had the funds to finish getting my license.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Another vote for getting in touch with VTail.
IIRC, he knows a few instructors, and I believe is a CFII, so likely knows the right people.

I do miss flying & wish I'd had the funds to finish getting my license.

Moreover, V-Tail has been around long enough and can probably tell the clowns from the cowboys.

V-Tail checking in here. Where y'at in Florida? I'm just north of Orlando, my home base is the Orlando-Apopka airport, just north of Greater Metropolitan Downtown Apopka, located on U.S. Hwy 441 -- North Orange Blossom Trail -- sort of straddling the Apopka / Zellwood city line.

I have been a Flight Instructor for a bit over 50 years. Time flies when you're having fun. My students fly, too.

I have not done any primary (beginning) instruction for quite a while, that's not my focus nowadays.

However, if you would like to get together maybe for lunch, or a cold beer, I could discuss the situation with you, maybe help get you (your son) pointed in the right direction.

Best way to contact me is via the email address in my profile.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Avoid any half price lessons from anyone named Muhammad.

Instructors are usually pretty leery of students who want to learn how to take off but are not interested in landing.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Avoid any half price lessons from anyone named Muhammad.

Instructors are usually pretty leery of students who want to learn how to take off but are not interested in landing.

Would that include students from the middle East who wish to only fly a commercial Jet, not take off or land?

quote:

economically

That word and airplanes are mutually exclusive.

Embry Riddle is a fantastic location to get flight training but not if that is all you are looking for in training. it's a college geared to a total education. Cost wise, you would be much cheaper going through a CFI locally in the area.


Pilot error was not a favor in the crash. the safety record of ERAU is outstanding. But if you're not looking for a career and a college education, they aren't for you.

Take your time and talk to a few of the schools available in your area. I don't know how many small GA airports are near you, but one will be a better fit than the others. It isn't inexpensive. A C172, with fuel, with instructor here will generally cost around $167 plus taxes and higher.

Good luck with your quest. Sorry I'm not closer, I could help ya out.

ERAU is not economical. There is an enormous amount of flight training available throughout Florida. Depending on the goal as the outcome of the flight training, there is some difference in the training, however.

A lot of flight training is conducted by very inexperienced pilots; it's the traditional first step for someone with a fresh commercial pilot certificate, with a whopping 250 hours under their belt. Everybody has to start somewhere, but you're drawing from an empty well if you start there. Something to keep in mind.

I spent some time flying recently with a young man who's had quite a time trying to get through his instrument rating...because the instructors aren't staying around long enough. As soon as they get a few hours under their belt, enough to apply to a regional airline, they're gone...right in the middle of his training. The result for him is delays and increased cost. One bailed on him just before his checkride, setting him back again.

I'd strongly suggest an instructor with a little experience behind him; far better a career pilot who does a little training in his spare time, who isn't going anywhere, and who is more interested in your son's proficiency than he is squeezing hours our of your son's wallet. There's a lot of that going on.

Don't commit to an instructor or to a school before having given it an introductory try. Talk to other students, current and former. Look at the aircraft. Are they clean, or dirty? New, or old? Oil dripping underneath? Is the ramp (tarmac) stained underneath them?

Are they in busy airspace, for which your son will be paying an hour's rental just to fly to the training area, and back? It may be worth your while to drive a bit farther to an area where training can be conducted right at the airfield. Is the facility close to the President's abode...and will it get shut down every time he comes to stay? Better driving a little farther.

If your son wants to pursue flying as a profession, he's going to probably end up as a flight instructor himself; will the school where he trains hire their own students, and do they stay busy enough to keep him busy once he gets to that point?

Does the school want you to pay up front? Be very leery of that. More than a few have taken ten grand from students, then folded. Good luck getting the money back. Many schools offer an hourly rental discount if you buy X number of hours up front...that's okay if you're sure you'll use them, but don't get too far ahead. Too many possible outcomes.

A school that offers a combination of training aircraft of different types, and offers primary flight training, instrument, multi engine, tailwheel, etc, is a good choice; it has continuing options. Likewise, look at one that can provide training on analog instruments (round actual instruments on the panel), and also digital or electronic instrument displays. There is value to both, and if your son is going to stick with it, he should know both and will eventually be flying "glass" electronic-screen cockpits.

If he hasn't got a medical yet, and if he intends to pursue aviation beyond his private pilot, look at getting the first class done now, to make sure he can pass it. If there's any question of him passing it, get counseling before making an appointment for the exam. AOPA is a good place to start, but there is some value in bringing it up here, too.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

economically

That word and airplanes are mutually exclusive.

RHINOWSO speaks the TRUTH! The closest that you get to economical in aviation is someone else paying for it.

ERAU Alum here. Graduating class of 2000 at the Arizona campus.

What's the goal? Airline pilot, corporate pilot or flying for funzies?

Unless they've changed significantly in the last 20 years, ERAU is not designed to just get your PPL. The vast majority of flight instructors are building time for their career. Some might care about teaching, most probably don't. ERAU is no exception.

I took the Airline Pilot track. I was a flight instructor for a three years, regional airline pilot for thirteen years, and now a large cabin, corporate pilot simulator instructor.

I would NOT recommend ERAU for anybody unless they've changed their format significantly since I attended. (Which is possible.)

-You will "learn" a bunch of crap that seems applicable to real life, but actually isn't.
-Despite the marketing as the "Harvard of Aviation," or something, airlines don't actually look at it that way. Airlines want a Bachelor's Degree in something, they don't care what it is, where it's from. Airlines do NOT care about ERAU degree. It will NOT improve your chance of getting hired. Some corporate flight departments might look favorably at it, but I doubt it.
-There are much cheaper ways to "network" than drop a couple hundred grand on an "education."

Right now, regional airlines are looking for warm bodies that meet the flight time requirements. Several are hiring without an legitimate interview. Regional airlines are where the real networking happens, not college. . . and you get paid for it. If I wanted to fly airlines, I would:
-Get required ratings as fast as possible. All-ATP might be an quick way to do that.
-Build time. Flight instruction is the classic method, but there are Part 135 outfits that will hire low time copilots. (email me for details)
-Get hired by regional airline. In most cases, that's not very difficult right now. I would put primary preference on "flow through agreement" with the major airline I wanted to work for, if available. My second consideration would be upgrade time. Further down the list would be "work rules" and location. They all suck, get over it. Suffer and get out ASAP.
-By then he'll know what to do.

Remember that flow through agreements and upgrade times can change. Recruiters lie. Be flexible. The ability to "commute" is awesome. Commuting actually sucks.

The Robots are Coming. Like it or not, we will almost certainly see single pilot and remotely operated aircraft in the next 15-30 years. I think 15 years is conservative. Just like with automated cars, the technology exists, it just needs to be cleaned up. ALPA sees the writing on the wall and is already campaigning against it. Pilots are a HUGE expense, so don't think for a second that airlines won't jump on the technology as soon as possible.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All what Dave said and to boot, if you go the degree route with ERAU, expect to have around $250,000.00 in student loans.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Are they in busy airspace, for which your son will be paying an hour's rental just to fly to the training area, and back? It may be worth your while to drive a bit farther to an area where training can be conducted right at the airfield.

I would disagree with guppy here. I learned in busy airspace at Houston's William P. Hobby airport back in the 90's; a major HUB for Southwest Airlines. I deemed it an EXTREMELY valuable lesson to "mix it up" with airline traffic and ATC by having to use proper radio calls and terminology to get me out to and back in from the practice area. In addition, after working with Houston TRACON to fly around and out of the area, I was not intimidated if I traveled to another large city and had to "check in" with that ATC environment.

That experience on the radio and having to work with ATC probably saved me time and money when getting my instrument rating, as I didn't have to take time, either on the ground or in the air, to learn that terminology. If one is subject to "mic fright", they'll get over it quickly. Plus that knowledge is transferred if/when your son moves on to his Instrument Rating, which I would HIGHLY recommend.

I don't recall more than 2 or 3 times that I was delayed getting off the ground when trying to depart Hobby. And I flew there from Private all the way through Commercial/Multi spanning 1991 thru 1998.

In summary, I would deem it money well spent to fly in and out of a busy terminal area from the "get-go". JMHO...

My instructor was an old retired guy whose flying license was signed by Orville Wright. He charged $10 per lesson, whether it was all afternoon cross country or show up and tell me to do a dozen touch and goes.

One day, I was busily preflighting the 152 when Bill drives up. After greetings, he asks, “Jimmy, what makes an airplane fly?”

I assume my best Martha King impersonation and start rattling on about lift, drag, thrust, etc. all that aerodynamic nonsense. After about ten minutes, he mercifully puts me out of his misery, saying, “Nahh, it’s money. If you don’t have any, the airplane won’t fly.”

Among his other gems were “Never land before you get to the airport.” And “Go potty every chance you get.”