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Argentinian Navy lost contact with one of its submarines. all presumed dead and ship lost in the abyss(Edited)
November 27, 2017, 10:00 AM
RightwireArgentinian Navy lost contact with one of its submarines. all presumed dead and ship lost in the abyss(Edited)
That is really sad to hear, sounds like the incident was preventable simply with decisions based on life safety of the crew.
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There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. November 27, 2017, 10:53 AM
old rugged crossNot much of a surprise to hear. Sad that they could of and should of taken measures that might of resulted in saving the crew.
RIP men.
Prayers for all who mourn now.
"Practice like you want to play in the game"
November 27, 2017, 11:00 AM
c1stevequote:
the base decided to have the sub continue as planned instead of taking and precautionary measures that would have put the ship closer to shallower waters and more immediate assistance if required.
Typical, bureaucrats who are not the ones to lose their life, make a stupid decision. Still the captain is the one who makes the final decision, he should have headed to shallow water and told the command it was necessary.
-c1steve
November 27, 2017, 12:05 PM
joel9507quote:
Originally posted by 0-0:
the capt. said it was under control
...
the base decided to have the sub continue as planned
I can understand the base deciding to defer to the man on the scene, but still....sounds like an underwater edition of the Keystone Kops.
Nicky, will this stuff affect recruitment for the Argentinian Navy?
November 27, 2017, 12:18 PM
JALLENGoing to sea is always dangerous. Sometimes more so.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown November 27, 2017, 03:06 PM
tacfoleyYitgadal v'yitkadash sh'mei raba.
B'alma di v'ra chirutei,
v'yamlich malchutei,
b'chayeichon uv'yomeichon
uv'chayei d'chol beit Yisrael,
baagala uviz'man kariv. V'im'ru: Amen.
Y'hei sh'mei raba m'varach
l'alam ul'almei almaya.
Yitbarach v'yishtabach v'yitpaar
v'yitromam v'yitnasei,
v'yit'hadar v'yitaleh v'yit'halal
sh'mei d'kud'sha b'rich hu,
l'eila min kol birchata v'shirata,
tushb'chata v'nechemata,
daamiran b'alma. V'imru: Amen.
Y'hei sh'lama raba min sh'maya,
v'chayim aleinu v'al kol Yisrael.
V'imru: Amen.
Oseh shalom bimromav,
Hu yaaseh shalom aleinu,
v'al kol Yisrael.
V'imru: Amen.
tac
November 27, 2017, 03:35 PM
sdyThe Argentinian submarine that disappeared over a fortnight ago vanished after water got into its snorkel and made the battery short-circuit, the navy has today revealed.
Before it went missing, the submarine had been ordered back to its Mar del Plata base after it reported water had entered through the snorkel, causing a battery short circuit, navy spokesman Enrique Balbi told a news conference today.
**************
truth may be hard to find here
November 27, 2017, 03:49 PM
sigmonkeyquote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:
Yitgadal v'yitkadash sh'mei raba.
B'alma di v'ra chirutei,
v'yamlich malchutei,
b'chayeichon uv'yomeichon
uv'chayei d'chol beit Yisrael,
baagala uviz'man kariv. V'im'ru: Amen.
Y'hei sh'mei raba m'varach
l'alam ul'almei almaya.
Yitbarach v'yishtabach v'yitpaar
v'yitromam v'yitnasei,
v'yit'hadar v'yitaleh v'yit'halal
sh'mei d'kud'sha b'rich hu,
l'eila min kol birchata v'shirata,
tushb'chata v'nechemata,
daamiran b'alma. V'imru: Amen.
Y'hei sh'lama raba min sh'maya,
v'chayim aleinu v'al kol Yisrael.
V'imru: Amen.
Oseh shalom bimromav,
Hu yaaseh shalom aleinu,
v'al kol Yisrael.
V'imru: Amen.
tac
Omain.
"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! November 27, 2017, 03:54 PM
ArLEOretAmen
Officers lives matter!
November 27, 2017, 03:59 PM
olfuzzy"The Argentinian submarine that disappeared over a fortnight ago vanished after water got into its snorkel and made the battery short-circuit, the navy has today revealed"
No way
"Before it went missing, the submarine had been ordered back to its Mar del Plata base after it reported water had entered through the snorkel, causing a battery short circuit, navy spokesman Enrique Balbi told a news conference today."
CYA
November 27, 2017, 04:07 PM
c1steveOlfuzzy is correct. Water coming into the snorkel would enter the engine room and would probably damage one or more engines. The battery bank would not be affected. Bunch of bureaucrats CYA, sounds like democrats from the USA talking.
-c1steve
November 27, 2017, 04:15 PM
bcereussquote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
Olfuzzy is correct. Water coming into the snorkel would enter the engine room and would probably damage one or more engines. The battery bank would not be affected. Bunch of bureaucrats CYA, sounds like democrats from the USA talking.
Not necessarily. Depending on what they were doing exactly, there could have been significant water egress that could have entered the battery void.
November 27, 2017, 08:26 PM
jimmy123xquote:
Originally posted by bcereuss:
quote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
Olfuzzy is correct. Water coming into the snorkel would enter the engine room and would probably damage one or more engines. The battery bank would not be affected. Bunch of bureaucrats CYA, sounds like democrats from the USA talking.
Not necessarily. Depending on what they were doing exactly, there could have been significant water egress that could have entered the battery void.
Or if the generators browned out causing the battery charger to short a battery or two....it's feasible..........Either way if you shorted out a battery, there most likely would be a ferocious smell through that entire sub.
November 27, 2017, 09:13 PM
Balzé HalzéMore likely if there was a large ingress of water like that, electrical swithboards and/or panels are what shorted out. Multiple electrical systems in fact. Keep in mind how tight the spaces must be on a sub like that.
Either way, that is a lights out situation, literally. There's not much chance of a fast recovery from that type of catastrophic event.
~Alan
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November 27, 2017, 10:08 PM
Expert308Seems like a manual emergency blow procedure would be available, turning valves by hand to vent high pressure air into the ballast tanks even in the event of a complete power failure. Possible?
November 27, 2017, 10:24 PM
jimmy123xquote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
More likely if there was a large ingress of water like that, electrical swithboards and/or panels are what shorted out. Multiple electrical systems in fact. Keep in mind how tight the spaces must be on a sub like that.
Either way, that is a lights out situation, literally. There's not much chance of a fast recovery from that type of catastrophic event.
From what I'm reading though, snorkels dating back as far as WWII had float valves installed in the snorkel to keep seawater from coming into the snorkel..........So why wouldn't this German built submarine have one?
November 27, 2017, 10:25 PM
sdy
another picture from
https://twitter.com/SinaZerbomore info at:
https://www.ctbto.org/press-ce...marine-ara-san-juan/CTBTO Comprehensive nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organization
November 28, 2017, 06:34 AM
BansheeOnequote:
Originally posted by bcereuss:
quote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
Olfuzzy is correct. Water coming into the snorkel would enter the engine room and would probably damage one or more engines. The battery bank would not be affected. Bunch of bureaucrats CYA, sounds like democrats from the USA talking.
Not necessarily. Depending on what they were doing exactly, there could have been significant water egress that could have entered the battery void.
Deck plan of
San Juan with likely water ingress highlighted by a submariner on another board.
quote:
Argentina's missing submarine: ARA San Juan commander's final message before disappearance revealed
According to a navy spokesperson, the 44-member crew could still be in an "extreme survival situation".
By Lara Rebello
November 28, 2017 05:38 GMT
It has been 13 days since the Argentinean submarine ARA San Juan went missing while sailing home base at Mar del Plata. Since then, a large scale international search and rescue mission has been taking place, with 13 countries including the US, UK and Chinese navies taking part in the rescue efforts.
Despite this, very little headway has been made, and the vessel has still not been discovered since its last communication on 15 November.
The ARA San Juan had been called back to port after the commander informed of a complication with one of the batteries. "Entry of seawater by ventilation system to battery tank No. 3 caused a short circuit and the beginning of a fire in the balcony of battery bars, bow batteries out of service, at the time of immersion, propelling with a split circuit. I will keep staff informed," Pedro Martín Fernández informed in a message via radio frequency.
Navy spokesman Enrique Balbi said that other batteries could have been used to direct the submarine to safety, describing the situation as "smoke without flames". He said the issue was rectified and the battery, isolated.
[...]
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/argen...nce-revealed-1649174November 28, 2017, 10:13 AM
jimmy123xBut shouldn't the submarine have a float valve or flapper valve that wouldn't let water get into the snorkel to begin with?
Does OOC on the forward batteries mean they were bad and not usable at all? Or just simply low and needed to be recharged?
It would make sense if the forward batteries were bad and they were near the surface running the engines and generators in rough seas to charge the batteries (higher risk of ingesting water) rather than waiting a few days for the ocean to calm down or getting to calmer water, because they only had 1/2 of the batteries operational and half the range underwater.
I cannot confirm this but through the grapevine (in the marine industry) someone told me that the Argentinian subs are seriously lacking proper maintenance and the sub was refit in Brazil in 2013, because they couldn't afford to take it back to the manufacturer in Germany and get properly refit. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
November 28, 2017, 11:57 AM
tacfoleyMany moons ago I did a three-day transit from Greenock, Scotland, to Plymouth down in SW England in an Oberon Class d/e submarine - all of it either at snorkel depth or surface running - just awful.
When we were snorkelling, every time it hit a wave the flapper valve operated, and the big diesels took their air from the crew compartments instead...not funny.
And that boat was old when I was in it.
tac