While the Mk19/M320/M203 family of 40mm grenades certainly have their applications, nothing says “Fuck you” to the guys in the room right next to you better than an M67.

In regards to BRM, my son said they qualified with M16A2s, but with a CCO mounted via a gooseneck out over the forearm. I’m no expert but wouldn’t having the CCO that far forward actually be detrimental to acquiring and engaging far targets?

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
In regards to BRM, my son said they qualified with M16A2s, but with a CCO mounted via a gooseneck out over the forearm.

What’s a CCO?

And I’m confused about some of the posts here.

When the grenade throw was part of the physical fitness test in the 1960s and early ’70s, it involved throwing a dummy grenade at a horizontal target on the ground for distance and accuracy. That was later dropped (a long time ago) along with the low crawl, overhead horizontal ladder, and run, dodge, and jump. So, when was that reinstated? Or was it? It seems like some posters here are just referring to the grenade throw as tossing a live grenade or two over a berm under tight supervision. Is that what the original post is about—no more of that? Or (unlike during my 23 years in the Army, including a stint in Viet Nam), was there an actual fitness development program at one time to condition recruits to actually throw a grenade 30 meters (~33 yards/~100 feet)?

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
I recall hearing some of the complaints (observations ) amongst basic instructors was there's a fair number of recruits that besides not having much athleticism, can't throw worth a damn.

But they can throw well on video games.



.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:


What’s a CCO?

close combat optic

------------------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
I’m no expert but wouldn’t having the CCO that far forward actually be detrimental to acquiring and engaging far targets?

No. Red dots function just fine at any point along the top of the rifle (within reason).

Carry handle mounts like that used to be commonplace, back when red dots were first seeing widespread use.

Thanks, RogueJSK. I guess that would be a horrible thing if someone had never seen it before.

Any idea who made/makes the mount in the upper photo? Maybe I’d start shooting my ancient SP-1 again. (I knew such mounts existed, but I’ve never looked for one.)

Added: Interesting point, BTW. A fellow instructor has decided/become convinced that there is a distinct tactical advantage to mounting red dot sights farther forward. The theory is that the sight appears smaller and blocks less of one’s peripheral vision, thereby improving our ability to scan the area for threats. I’m not sure what I think of the idea at this point, though, because when scanning I keep both eyes open, and mostly “see through” the sight except for a small area. Moving the sight forward or back doesn’t have much effect on that blind spot, but moving the sight forward does bring it into focus a bit better and it’s therefore more noticeable, even if it doesn’t block my vision more.

I'm thinking a grenade is something I'd want to know how to properly use before I started playing around.

Something about horseshoes and hand grenades.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks, RogueJSK. I guess that would be a horrible thing if someone had never seen it before.

I'm a visual guy. I like pictures. Deal with it.

(I think it was jljones who suggested a while back that my CUT should actually be something like "A picture for every occasion". )

quote:

Any idea who made/makes the mount in the upper photo?

Ultimak. But it's discontinued.

http://ultimak.com/ap10174.htm

quote:

Added: Interesting point, BTW. A fellow instructor has decided/become convinced that there is a distinct tactical advantage to mounting red dot sights farther forward. The theory is that the sight appears smaller and blocks less of one’s peripheral vision, thereby improving our ability to scan the area for threats. I’m not sure what I think of the idea at this point, though, because when scanning I keep both eyes open, and mostly “see through” the sight except for a small area. Moving the sight forward or back doesn’t have much effect on that blind spot, but moving the sight forward does bring it into focus a bit better and it’s therefore more noticeable, even if it doesn’t block my vision more.

Various positions have pros/cons, although the differences can be relatively minor.

As you mentioned, mounting it forward blocks a bit less of your vision. But it's a bit less forgiving regarding head position.

Mounting it closer to the eye allows the optic to fill more of your vision, and becomes a bit more forgiving for eye/head placement, but can cause "tunnel vision", and the body of the sight can block more of your vision.

I prefer my red dots mounted towards the front of the upper receiver and roughly above the magazine on ARs and similar rifles. It's a happy medium. But I do have other rifles with red dots positioned further forward on "scout mounts" over the barrel/handguard, mainly on types of rifles where receiver mounting is troublesome, like AKs and M14s/Mini-14s.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Any idea who made/makes the mount in the upper photo?

Ultimak. But it's discontinued.

Thank you. I guess I should start looking to see if there is anything similar still available.

SIGfreund,

A similar mount came with Army-issued CCOs a few years back, just in case they went to a unit that still had fixed carry handles. You can probably find them for resale on the interwebs if nobody makes something similar currently.

quote:

Originally posted by threefeathers:
I have a necklaces made of grenade pins from grenades that I threw. The jungle and now MOUT are the perfect places for grenades and will remain that way.

I have one hanging on my gun rack with my dog tags. I was in Basic in 72

"The spotter in the tower reported it went ~90 meters (IIRC), farthest he had ever seen."

During the grenade portion in Basic at Fort Polk in July '68, I was brought up to the tower after my throw. The range officer pointed out a lone tree at 50m. and said my throw was an air burst just past the tree. Also said the only other guy to throw one that far was a guard currently playing for the Dallas Cowboys. During my Presidential Fitness Test () in High School, my softball throw measured 315' (spot where it landed - not stopped), I also threw the javelin and shot (I know "putt") at LSU. Maybe my frag throw would have landed at 60-65 meters without the air burst. Twenty-five to thirty meters past my throw and about 20' less my the softball throw? - this guy must have had a 130mph fastball!

I will say that throwing it over 50 meters was very painful, and I am currently scheduled for major right shoulder reconstruction. The stupidity of youth does have a payment due in later life.

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This message has been edited. Last edited by: redleg2/9,

Man, I hate that training is gone. I recall fondly the days leading up to the live grenade throws, and how all of us grunts were filled with excitement at the prospect that we got to throw a live one.

Maybe we should eliminate the force march from training too, since it's so hard on [some of] the smaller framed progesterone enhanced recruits? Or was he saying that even the sloppy fat male cherries can't toss one 30 yards?

quote:

Originally posted by redleg2/9:
"The spotter in the tower reported it went ~90 meters (IIRC), farthest he had ever seen."

During the grenade portion in Basic at Fort Polk in July '68, I was brought up to the tower after my throw. The range officer pointed out a lone tree at 50m. and said my throw was an air burst just past the tree. Also said the only other guy to throw one that far was a guard currently playing for the Dallas Cowboys. During my Presidential Fitness Test () in High School, my softball throw measured 315', I also threw the javelin and shot (I know "putt") at LSU. Maybe my frag throw would have landed at 60-65 meters without the air burst. Twenty-five to thirty meters past my throw and about 20' less my the softball throw? - this guy must have had a 130mph fastball!

I will say that throwing it over 50 meters was very painful, and I am currently scheduled for major right shoulder reconstruction. The stupidity of youth does have a payment due in later life.

.

That's us Louisiana boys. I blew up a cherry bomb in my right hand my junior year. Messed it up pretty good. In Basic at Ft. Polk in 1972 I told them I was going to throw it so far we wouldn't hear it go off.

If the army is dropping requirements maybe I'll get to join finally. I'm only overweight.

quote:

Originally posted by slabsides45:
Man, I hate that training is gone. I recall fondly the days leading up to the live grenade throws, and how all of us grunts were filled with excitement at the prospect that we got to throw a live one.

Again, the training isn't being removed, just the grenade qualification test portion.

In basic in the mid 80’s we all carried a practice grenade everywhere we went and the drills had us practice throwning every day when in the wait phase of various hurry up and wait episodes. While not a great thrower managed to qualify “sharpshooter” level in basic. Prior to my deployments we did refresher training and they dispensed with the classic grenade throw pose and actually had us throwing underhand which was found to be more effective and easier to hit targets like bunkers and windows. Enjoyed the few live throws I got

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
I recall hearing some of the complaints (observations ) amongst basic instructors was there's a fair number of recruits that besides not having much athleticism, can't throw worth a damn.

But they can throw well on video games.

Yep. I suspect it's mostly just a matter that most kids now spend their time entertaining themselves with electronics. I never played organized sports as a kid, but for me and most of the other boys on my block, throwing a ball was something you did dozens if not hundreds of times a week. If there wasn't a friend around to play catch with, i'd often bounce a ball off the side of the house.

quote:

Originally posted by redleg2/9:....During the grenade portion in Basic at Fort Polk...

I know the place.

Can you imagine what it sounded like when the Army switched from flintlocks to caplocks?

And when rifling was introduced?
"Sights on muskets? We didn't need any damn sights? You're just wasting time teaching those boys to aim."

Automatic weapons? Ammo wasters.

Stuff changes, Old men complain about it.