SIGforum
Firearms Question - Fully and Semi-Automatic
October 16, 2018, 08:49 AM
TMatsFirearms Question - Fully and Semi-Automatic
This came about a the result of a discussion I was in. However you respond, please don’t condescendingly explain the difference—we knowFully or Semi; are they both automatics?YesNo
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despite them
October 16, 2018, 08:51 AM
JALLENI don’t think many know what a “matic” does. I sure don’t.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown October 16, 2018, 08:54 AM
Elk HunterAs the definition describes! One continues to fire as long as the trigger is held down. The other automatically extracts the empty shell casing and loads the next round ready to fire.
So, to that extent, they both seem to be "automatics".
Elk
There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson
"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville
FBHO!!!
The Idaho Elk Hunter
October 16, 2018, 08:59 AM
darthfusterThey both have at least one automatic function.
You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier October 16, 2018, 09:02 AM
RHINOWSOIn common use, most people mean "fully automatic" when they use the term "Automatic weapons".
October 16, 2018, 09:04 AM
cslingerYes they both automatically, using normally wasted forces, to strip and chamber a new round without the need for human intervention, unless it’s a TEC9 but I digress
Fully automatic simply takes it one step further and continues the firing process without additional human interaction.....unless ... NOTE SEE TEC9.
Take Care, Shoot Safe,
Chris
October 16, 2018, 09:09 AM
sigproshooterI say no. Since what you're talking about is how a weapon functions, specifically its firing mechanism, only one can be truly considered "automatic." The other would be, to me, merely considered "autoloading."
October 16, 2018, 09:12 AM
Nickelsig229quote:
Originally posted by sigproshooter:
I say no. Since what you're talking about is how a weapon functions, specifically its firing mechanism, only one can be truly considered "automatic." The other would be, to me, merely considered "autoloading."
It was my understanding that when the term Automatic was applied to firearms that it meant "automatically loads the next round"
It was after that invention they devised Automatic Firing weapons.
I'm not an expert though so I'm not 100 percent positive.
First In Last Out October 16, 2018, 09:13 AM
Oat_Action_ManBy definition, yes.
Automatic means it performs the operation by itself, and both modes perform the operations of loading and firing by themselves.
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Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"
Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
October 16, 2018, 09:15 AM
YellowJacketthey both automatically reload themselves but only one automatically also fires the weapon, so I say no.
but I can see why many would say yes. semi-auto shotguns are typically called "autoloaders."
I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. October 16, 2018, 09:25 AM
darthfusterSome people want to associate semi auto with fully auto to more easily ban semi auto. This is the point of questions like this much of the time. There is an alarmingly large number of politicians who would love to ban semi autos but know the political consequences would hurt them so they don't. That is why the Left works to change the culture by disseminating questions like this for the public to socratically work out. Change the culture, embolden the politician, ban the gun.
You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier October 16, 2018, 09:26 AM
sigcrazy7I voted no because of the way "automatic" is commonly used. In the military, if someone said "there's heavy automatic fire coming from that hilltop," we inferred it meant "fully" automatic fire.
Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus October 16, 2018, 09:50 AM
TMatsquote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
Some people want to associate semi auto with fully auto to more easily ban semi auto. This is the point of questions like this much of the time. There is an alarmingly large number of politicians who would love to ban semi autos but know the political consequences would hurt them so they don't. That is why the Left works to change the culture by disseminating questions like this for the public to socratically work out. Change the culture, embolden the politician, ban the gun.
Nothing quite as sinister as that, darthfuster. I’m approaching 11 years here, and have made enough posts that my politics should be well known to anyone paying attention. It never occurred to me that a member here would take the question this way; call me naive, I guess
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despite them
October 16, 2018, 10:51 AM
Balzé HalzéYes, they're both automatics.
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
October 16, 2018, 11:15 AM
Yanert98Like Alan, I was also taught that the term 'automatic' originally referred to the loading process.
So yes.
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"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism.." - Thomas Sowell
October 16, 2018, 12:22 PM
WoodmanAbout 5.5 hours into the poll, we're 50/50, 34 votes each way. My vote for YES evidently pushed up the truth to even-money.
I'm guessing it is an age-thing. The older you are, the more you'll recognize both variants as "automatics". The non-autos will be revolvers and lever/pump action rifles and shotguns.
October 16, 2018, 12:31 PM
jljonesThe definition is skewed.
The argument can be made they are both “automatics”, but they are not. Fully automatic is defined as a weapon that fire MULTIPLE rounds of ammunition with one depression of the trigger. Semi-automatic is defined as a weapon that fires one round of ammunition only with one depression of the trigger. The focus on the proper definition is round count, not self loading.
The definition focuses on the function of the self loading pistol where as the meat and potato’s of it is that the function of the weapon after the trigger is pressed.
It probably should have been classified as fully automatic and not fully automatic.
October 16, 2018, 12:38 PM
jaaron11quote:
Originally posted by Woodman:
The non-autos will be revolvers and lever/pump action rifles and shotguns.
To play devil's advocate, wouldn't a double action revolver be a semi-automatic pistol the way that many are defining it here? It "automatically" indexes the next round for you. One trigger pull, one round fired. The only difference is a rotary magazine instead of a detachable box magazine.
J
Rak Chazak Amats October 16, 2018, 12:46 PM
Cobra21Well, with a review of history in mind, I'd say YES. They didn't call it a cartridge for a SACP. They called it ACP...Automatic Colt Pistol.
Now, with the benefit of revisionist history in mind, we can now say, NO, it's not automatic. We've decided to reserve that term for multiple projectiles fired with one depression of the trigger.
I voted YES, as I'll stand on the original definition (at least in my mind anyway).
Risk the consequences of honesty...
October 16, 2018, 12:48 PM
CromIt sort of depends upon what the intention of the linguistic pissing contest is.
Both fully-Automatic and semi-automatic have "automatic" in the name, and are therefore both "automatic" and include some "automatic" function. But an "automatic rifle" is commonly implied to mean "fully-automatic" as in a "machine gun". A semi-auto is commonly referred to as a
semiautomatic rifle, and it would be considered inaccurate to call it an "automatic rifle", even though it is "a rifle with some automatic functions".
"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."