quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
Idaho has the death penalty. I'd say a conviction in this case deserves it.

They recently postponed an execution, unable to get the drugs.

I'm partial to the firing squad.

Rope, it's reusable!
Because somewhere down the line, there's going to be another asshole that's gonna need it.

I don't know about subscription TV "news" (Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc.), but the broadcast TV networks' "news" shows all open with dramatic music. That, right there, is a Clue as to what you can expect for "news" coverage.

I've referred to it as "Poorly-scripted reality TV" and "Entertainment billed as 'news'" for years.

The local TV "news" is no better. Most nights the one we catch at 10 o'clock (mainly for the weather--we pay little attention to the rest) opens with a red screen upon which is emblazoned "BREAKING NEWS." Eight or nine times out of ten that "breaking news" is about Yet Another Shooting In Detroit.

If it's a regular occurrence it's not "news," breaking or otherwise. It's just another day in the life. News would be the City of Detroit going a few days without a shooting, carjacking, store robbery, etc.

(To that last point: It's kind of hilarious, in a sad kind of a way. They'll open "news" broadcast after "news" broadcast after "news" broadcast with stories about yet more crime and violence in the City of Detroit, then follow it up, later in those same broadcasts, with "feel good" stories about Detroit's "comeback." The dichotomy between these two themes seems to escape them entirely.)

https://www.washingtonexaminer...genealogy-technology

A law enforcement source familiar with the matter told CNN that police found unknown DNA at the scene of the killings. However, the DNA didn't match anything within the police system, so police utilized genealogical techniques. The unknown DNA was run through a public database, which identified relatives of the suspect.

"Subsequent investigative work" done by police led to graduate student Bryan Kohberger being identified.

The story does have shades of Leopold and Loeb. Koholberger apparently took several courses from a noted forensic psychologist who writes on the subject. Thought he was too smart to get caught because he read the books.

Who cares? If you want to be fed that stuff, have at it.

DNA in general and genetic genealogy in particular is a great tool for identifying offenders. It's our big step up from fingerprint identification, in that "touch DNA" is so incredibly easy to obtain now in addition to biological carriers (blood, semen, saliva, etc...) verses latent (identifiable) fingerprints. Like any kind of forensic evidence though, DNA is not a be all-end all means of solving crimes. It's a tool and context is necessary to obtain convictions. If this case results in a conviction, it'll be because of the offender's DNA and other supporting evidence, not the DNA presence alone. Video recordings, recovery of other physical evidence, circumstantial, and credible admissions are all things that make our system of justice so much more reliable, much to the dismay of those intent on creating doubt not just for the benefit of the accused but to support a political narrative.

IMHO, the BLM and other "de-fund the police" movements need to use the specter of "racism" to sow doubt and hatred towards our system of justice because of increased professionalism of law enforcement providers and higher expectations of judges and juries that are being met in the courts. As lawyers are apt to say: "If you can't pound on the evidence, pound on the table."

The media is making him to be Bundy because he's educated and his booking photo. Maybe he is, maybe he did it, probable cause is a very low standard. Commercial DNA of his relatives, ok, like I said maybe he did it but what if he didn't. Media has him all but sentenced.

I don’t know much about this case because I don’t watch teevee and it’s easy enough to ignore the newspaper articles and YouTube videos. But as a former criminal investigator I find the use of genealogical DNA to be very interesting. During my career we had a few cases in which blood typing through semen was significant, but I don’t believe I’d even heard of using DNA in criminal investigations before I retired.

Because this is a high profile case, I suspect that investigative genetic genealogy will become a hot topic. On the one hand it’s, “Yay! You caught a horrific murderer,” but on the other it will result in new complaints of, “You invaded my privacy! I don’t want my DNA information used for any purpose I don’t authorize, even if it does permit catching dangerous serial criminals!” The latter will permit an entirely new group of objector victims (OVs—you heard it here first) to get their few minutes of fame and TV appearances by making it a new public issue.

I suspect it will be a new issue for judges and legislators to wrestle with, and I will be interested in that.

My sister did 23andMe.

Note to self: Don't commit a horrific quadruple murder. Check.

They identified that former cop who was a serial killer a couple years ago using DNA and genealogical investigation, so it's not that this is the first time it's been done. That was a pretty high profile case, too.

Interesting article about DNA data. Seems anyone can access the data.


snip: "If you're white, live in the United States, and a distant relative has uploaded their DNA to a public ancestry database, there's a good chance an internet sleuth can identify you from a DNA sample you left somewhere. That's the conclusion of a new study, which finds that by combining an anonymous DNA sample with some basic information such as someone's rough age, researchers could narrow that person's identity to fewer than 20 people by starting with a DNA database of 1.3 million individuals.

Such a search could potentially allow the identification of about 60% of white Americans from a DNA sample—even if they have never provided their own DNA to an ancestry database. "In a few years, it's really going to be everyone," says study leader Yaniv Erlich, a computational geneticist at Columbia University.

The study was sparked by the April arrest of the alleged "Golden State Killer," a California man accused of a series of decades-old rapes and murders. To find him—and more than a dozen other criminal suspects since then—law enforcement agencies first test a crime scene DNA sample, which could be old blood, hair, or semen, for hundreds of thousands of DNA markers—signposts along the genome that vary among people, but whose identity in many cases are shared with blood relatives. They then upload the DNA data to GEDmatch, a free online database where anyone can share their data from consumer DNA testing companies such as 23andMe and Ancestry.com to search for relatives who have submitted their DNA. Searching GEDMatch's nearly 1 million profiles revealed several relatives who were the equivalent to third cousins to the crime scene DNA linked to the Golden State Killer. Other information such as genealogical records, approximate age, and crime locations then allowed the sleuths to home in on a single person.":snip.



https://www.science.org/conten...Searching%20GEDMatch's%20nearly%201%20million,in%20on%20a%20single%20person.
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quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
https://www.washingtonexaminer...genealogy-technology

A law enforcement source familiar with the matter told CNN that police found unknown DNA at the scene of the killings. However, the DNA didn't match anything within the police system, so police utilized genealogical techniques. The unknown DNA was run through a public database, which identified relatives of the suspect.

"Subsequent investigative work" done by police led to graduate student Bryan Kohberger being identified.

Most people doing genealogical DNA testing are not aware that law enforcement often has agreements with the DNA laboratories to perform searches. These are not limited to attempts to match DNA to a person, but can also look for close relatives to the person.

My DNA has been tested by 2 different genealogy agencies and I am aware of the LE connections. I have no problem with it, because I'm not a felon and have no relatives who are. (In fact, at age 85 I have fewer relatives every year.)

flashguy

quote:

Most people doing genealogical DNA testing..........

I don't believe our government should have any access to this type of information absent a specific warrant.

I know some good things have happened as a result to that access, but I can only imagine the bad that's lying down that road. If they have the power, they will abuse it.

quote:

law enforcement often has agreements with the DNA laboratories to perform searches

Only with a warrant, duly issued by a judge upon probable cause. Same as cellphone records and IP searches by internet providers.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyker:

quote:

law enforcement often has agreements with the DNA laboratories to perform searches

Only with a warrant, duly issued by a judge upon probable cause. Same as cellphone records and IP searches by internet providers.

I did not intend to suggest that such searches would not be covered by appropriate warrants. Any search by LE for personal information should be under the aegis of a warrant.

flashguy

Typically, they use open source DNA records from genealogy search companies whose participants agreed in whatever paperwork they sign to get their genealogy tested. Once they get a familial match and use additional investigative resources to identify a suspect, they will (or have already) get a warrant for the specific suspect’s DNA to test to the scene sample.

For evidentiary purposes, they will either have a direct match or not, the familial match is just an investigative tool using the consent of the participants. It’s no different than social medial when people put their lives out there for all the world to see.

^^^Participants agreeing to the 'fine print' on the disclosure paperwork for genealogy testing is a little different than posting on social media...Just Sayin'

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^^Participants agreeing to the 'fine print' on the disclosure paperwork for genealogy testing is a little different than posting on social media...Just Sayin'

I understand the disagreement, but IMHO, it is not the outrageous governmental overreach some are discussing. It is simple, don’t want your “stuff” out there, don’t put it out there. I don’t share the outrage, but recognize opinions may vary.

quote:

It is simple, don’t want your “stuff” out there, don’t put it out there.

Therin lies the problem:

quote:

Such a search could potentially allow the identification of about 60% of white Americans from a DNA sample—even if they have never provided their own DNA to an ancestry database. "In a few years, it's really going to be everyone,"

Just because my second cousin puts theirs out there doesn't mean I want mine put out there, and that's essentially what's happening.

We've seen what's been happening with Twitter. Who wants to be that the government doesn't have their hand in these "get your genealogy with your DNA" sites too. I do not under any circumstance want my government to have access to my DNA via samples from others.

Although much of the media has, no doubt, sensationalized this Idaho case, my interest in it is more based on both the uncommon heinous nature of it, along with the forensic investigative side to it. For better or for worse, apparently senseless murders along with the gruesome aspects and details horrify many of us enough to want to try and rationalize a human action than can't be rationalized... to try to understand how something so terrible could be done. It's incomprehensible to many of us... so we seek to understand it.

This is why some of us read about the Jack the Ripper murders using a knife, or Lizzy Borden murdering her family with an axe.

A few years ago I was fascinated to learn about a series of murders that started in 1898 and continued through 1912, and took place over several small towns in different states. In each case, valuables were left behind, so money wasn't the motive in the murders.

The reason these murders went unsolved was exactly because local police and deputies focused on the murders being local and rarely did the next town 20-30-50 miles away even know that a series of murders had taken place, that they then might be able to connect to other murders and share the details or evidence that might help solve the crimes... the isolation of the crimes, each treated as a local crime, prevented the murders from being solved for decades, as investigators had no idea that the murders were related.

I was particularly interested to learn that the killer stopped to commit 2 of his murders in the city (much bigger today then at the the time of the murders) I live in now. I even drove by the house they took place in, which has been added on to, but still standing and apparently occupied.

I haven't made the time to read the book yet, but caught a 2 hour interview with the author who claims to have solved the murders and ID'd the murderer, that was never apprehended.

The Man from the train; The Solving of a Century-Old Serial Killer Mystery


Regarding the Idaho college murders and the DNA aspect to the case, I caught a brief interview with retired DC homicide investigator Ted Williams, who is the crime and investigative expert for media like Fox News, and he claims that the 2 surviving room mates in the house apparently called other college student friends over to the house after discovering the bodies of their room mates, and that they were in the house before police arrived, so the crime scene had been further contaminated by them. Obviously the suspect's defense attorney (at the moment, a public defender) is going to focus on the crime scene being contaminated as part of his defense.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Modern Day Savage,