quote:

For a millennium, black powder was a crucial material for both military and commercial uses. Today, it is a specialty commodity with few commercial applications—mostly for rocket hobbyists—but it’s still used in more than 300 munitions, from cruise missiles, to bullets for M16 rifles, to the vital 155mm shells.

In each case, a small amount of black powder is used to detonate a more powerful explosive packed in the same bullet or missile. A 155mm shell for a howitzer, for example, will use half an ounce of black powder, lodged next to 26 pounds of a more powerful explosive.

Why is this news, you may ask...

Well, the one black powder supplier in North America went down hard about two years ago, and is only now scheduled to come back on line this summer.

quote:

The “incident,” as the Minden explosion has become known, is a pointed example of the risks facing America’s military. The blast that wrecked a World War II era building in a remote compound 30 miles from Shreveport has extinguished all production of black powder in North America.

Non-paywalled link: WSJ "The U.S. Military Relies on One Louisiana Factory. It Blew Up."

Black powder 5.56?

Pehaps it's a minor component of smokeless powder, or a manufacturing catalyst for the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Black powder 5.56?

I wouldn’t think so. I wouldn’t have even thought black powder was used in primers for M193 or M855, but what do I know?

Those of us who enjoy a little muzzle loading from time-to-time have experienced BP "supply chain issues" for a couple of years now, nice to know that the cost of participating is undoubtedly going up. I doubt that this materially adds to the inflation numbers, but every little bit "helps."

US lead refiner goes out of business, black powder producer goes out of business, Anybody seeing a trend here?

quote:

Pehaps it's a minor component of smokeless powder, or a manufacturing catalyst for the same.

No, but BP is a lot easier for a hobbyist to produce than smokeless. The latter requires strong chemicals and expensive health protective measures. Think strong acids and lots of deadly fumes, out of the reach of the casual enthusiast.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Black powder 5.56?

I’ve never seen a 5.56 BP grenade or Blank round, but I know for a fact 30-06 and 7.62 have BP grenade rounds, as we used them in the CG and Navy for line throwing line guns made from the 1903 SLTG (shoulder line throwing gun) the barrel was drilled out to remove rifling and stocks and sights removed or altered and weight added to handle recoil from firing the 13 or 15 Oz projectiles.

Many units have the LTG kit for the M14 & M16 that use a big rubber bullet to heave a line to ships.


BP is used in parachute flares and many other types of pyro. It’s also used in large guns that use bag powder (the old 16” guns) have a small BP charge at each end of the bag to facilitate lighting the main charge.
And BP is used in large caliber fixed ammo gun’s primers (5”, 8”) if you look inside a case you can see the long primer with holes drilled thru them that go deeply into the case to help spread the burn into more of the powder than just at one end.

Are we bringing the BB's back on line? I hear they use a LOT of black powder.

According to one article I read yesterday, BP is an important component in 155mm artillery ammo. Sounds like it is used initiate or enhance the smokeless powder.

Artl claimed lots of rounds sent to Ukraine leaving us short.

Apparently only Hogdon still makes BP and the plant blew up. Companies began to consolidate years ago due to low demand.

I can find Triple 7, Pyrodex, and similar black powder substitutes fairly easily. However, I haven't seen any of the real stuff in a long time in any of my LGS and I'm now down to my last 1lb of Goex. Hopefully that will change in the near future .

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
I can find Triple 7, Pyrodex, and similar black powder substitutes fairly easily. However, I haven't seen any of the real stuff in a long time in any of my LGS and I'm now down to my last 1lb of Goex. Hopefully that will change in the near future .

A big part of that is the very different regulations for bp substitutes and actual black powder. Selling actual black powder requires an explosives license which among other things is an additional cost, more difficult to acquire, and much more regulated than the licensing most places that would sell it (gun stores primarily) already have. In addition to very specific storage requirements you must maintain a log of sales. No NICS check, but ID info along the lines of "sold one pound on this date to so and so and here is their info". So that's why you'd see a lot of places carry smokeless powder for reloading and bp substitute but never carry actual black powder.

Back when I was selling that sort of stuff the only real demand for actual bp was from civil war reenactors and people with cannons. The bp substitute outperforms actual bp in every way other than creating lots of smoke so the vast majority of people shooting bp guns (hunters) preferred the substitute.

^^^^
Mountain man rendezvous prefer black powder for the smoke as well. Admittedly, the substitutes are easier to clean as well. However, I'd still like some black powder for the occasional use.

We used to have a small LGS that focused on muzzle loaders but they went out of business and nobody else has stepped in to fill their spot. Probably for the reasons you stated.


Side note: during the ammo shortage, I was able to find plenty of Pyrodex, caps, and balls. I told my kids shooting would be old school.

quote:

Originally posted by maxdog:
According to one article I read yesterday, BP is an important component in 155mm artillery ammo.

Yes, it is.

In the Modular Artillery Charge System (MACS) charges above, BP is used in the initiator pads - the red circle. This is where the hot gasses from the primers burn into the propelling charge. This in turn initiates the main propelling charge. It is also located in the base (red pads) of the older bagged charges (on the left). It is used in this manner because it ignites easily and BP will deflagrate (burn) rather than detonate.

BP is also used in other munitions, in small quantities, usually to initiate a main charge, as an expelling charge, marking charge, or in various pyrotechnics.

Our current tank rounds, which use the M123A1 electric primer, contain a black powder base charge.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:
Back when I was selling that sort of stuff the only real demand for actual bp was from civil war reenactors and people with cannons.

I'm told it makes a good pipe bomb. I wouldn't know, of course.

Irony:
Importing firecrackers to celebrate the fourth.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
I can find Triple 7, Pyrodex, and similar black powder substitutes fairly easily. However, I haven't seen any of the real stuff in a long time in any of my LGS and I'm now down to my last 1lb of Goex. Hopefully that will change in the near future .

Hodgdon closed its Goex BP plant in 2021 and no longer offers any BP formulations. Goex and Olde Eynsford were the last BP brands produced in the US. At the time of the closure there were rumors that someone would acquire the plant and resume production, but I haven't seen any announcements to that effect.

BP shooters have a wide range of interests, but there are many who strongly prefer a strict traditionalist approach, including many reenactors. Having to rely on imported BP (or, worse, substitutes that don't function well in flintlocks and other older firearm designs) bunches their panties considerably. I haven't heard of anybody blowing themselves up when trying to self-manufacture, but it seems inevitable.

I think in Civil War time, some made it from pee.

i have a few pounds i could lend them