Leasing isn’t subscription. At all. When multiple people use the same car then it’s subscription. Not going to go big time in my opinion.

Read his links. They literally think 20 people will buy into fractional ownership. Ie, I need a car in 2 days and I schedule it. Not the same as buying services. People want their own car. Or they don’t and they want Uber. Not a lot of middle ground there.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

Younger people aren’t phased by not owning the thing they purchase. Take gaming systems for example. Sure, you pay $500 for the system, but then you need a subscription account to play with your friends. Phones are another example. How many people buy a phone and hang onto it for years after it’s paid off? How many people trade it for the next model and keep the payments going?

Most young people I know have monthly music subscriptions and
streaming services like Youtube TV. They pay monthly without long term contracts.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
These monthly subscription fees would go away quickly if everyone just said no.

I agree but I'm afraid it's a runaway train.

My first thought about electric cars lasting was 'to the end of their warranty'.

As to subscriptions, with the high cost of new vehicles, higher complexity and cost of repairs (i.e. $1400 for a side mirror), higher insurance costs, a subscription model could totally make sense.

For a young couple, for example, they may start with a small sedan and then have a child and grow into a suburban and minivan without having to buy and sell separate vehicles.

Does the subscription model make financial sense? That depends. What's the average cost of maintenance, repairs, insurance, and initial purchase vs subscribing? It looks like an evolution of leasing vs buying.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
These monthly subscription fees would go away quickly if everyone just said no.

Not that I don’t agree, but that was 1s1k that said that.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
These monthly subscription fees would go away quickly if everyone just said no.

Not that I don’t agree, but that was 1s1k that said that.

LOL...Fixed.
Damn copy and paste.

How long is the loan to buy it?

A car with a 72 month loan will usually last 72 months and one femptosecond.

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
I'd love a quality EV as a second car. Running around town on short, 10-15 mile trips wouldn't require charging on the road, and that's a lot of our driving these days.

That describes most of my driving in mine. I’ve had it 9 years now. It’s a Leaf, a 2013. I don’t have a ton of miles on it but it’s lasted well so far. I paid $19.7k all in including leasing it first. It would suck ass as a road trip vehicle, just wouldn’t make it, but as a commuter, go get groceries, go to the gym, the dentist, the doctor, etc, well it’s solid. I lease solar panels so juice is free for it too. One more year left on my factory bumper to bumper warranty.

quote:

Originally posted by Some Shot:
I need some bumper stickers to give out that say "This car runs on coal".

My electric lawn mower sports a "Friends of Coal" sticker, as it is effectively coal-powered 100% in this part of WV.

Current electric cars are the equivalent of the compact fluorescent light in the lightbulb world. They're incrementally better in a couple of ways, with huge drawbacks and penalties in all other areas. They make sense for a small subset of users, but in their current form they have too many drawbacks for mainstream adoption- even with the government trying to push everyone that direction.

Within my lifetime I expect we'll get a technology revolution of one kind or another (won't be current generation EVs) that will largely kill the internal combustion engine. People won't adopt it because someone tells them too, they will adopt it because it's clearly better in almost every way.

I don’t know about the “in my lifetime” bit because banking on a technology boom is sketchy at best. I do agree with you however that if that boom occurs we all will switch because the benefits are so obvious and benefit basically any driver.

This current crop sucks. Yes they are very fast. Yes if you already have solar panels you probably are driving to the store for free. After that the benefits get a bit stickier. Technically I own 4 cars in my name. In reality one of them is mine. I don’t want one car for this and one car for that. I want one car. Buying one car for everyday driving and one for trips makes little sense.

quote:

Yes if you already have solar panels you probably are driving to the store for free.

Only if someone gifted you those panels, last I looked, those panels were big money, and take years to pay off without state taxpayer assistance.

Nobody ever calculates that though, whatever makes people feel good...

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Yes if you already have solar panels you probably are driving to the store for free.

Only if someone gifted you those panels, last I looked, those panels were big money, and take years to pay off without state taxpayer assistance.

Nobody ever calculates that though, whatever makes people feel good...

No, incorrect. I leased my 35 panels in 2014. Lease payment + KWH payment, all in yearly, I save 4 figures per year. That figure doubles when I calculate the gasoline savings from DD’ing an electric toaster. So no those panels weren’t “big money” and all financial calculations were performed. Blanket statements about everything are bullshit.

Not to get in the middle of that argument but I fall into the "you probably bought solar panels for the house and if you bought an EV later that is just a bennie" crowd.

When I buy stuff to wash my car I don't factor in the cost of the hose. I bought that regardless of whether I ever wash my car.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

No, incorrect. I leased my 35 panels in 2014. Lease payment + KWH payment, all in yearly, I save 4 figures per year. That figure doubles when I calculate the gasoline savings from DD’ing an electric toaster. So no those panels weren’t “big money” and all financial calculations were performed. Blanket statements about everything are bullshit.

Guess if you can plug a new EV in, and your lease payment remains the same, no reduction or increase that would change things then yes you have a zero monthly cost to charge it.

Not trying to be argumentative, but there are states and factors that don't allow that to happen. If you live where that happens, it's great.

Down here we sell our electricity back to the energy company by law, getting a system installed, lease or purchase and you'll have a monthly cost equal to or more than your electric bill. Last lease quoted was $300 more than my electric bill, same for Teslas system on a purchase with cash down. Zero savings, might just be me or FL...

But it would be as you said zero as long as the power use to charge the car(s) didn't exceed production over the year...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HRK,