For the FFL - Do you ever enter the guns' info without opening the case to inspect the actual gun? A brand new one from manufacturer with the zip tie still on.

For the buyers receiving transfer - Do you ever take the "gun" home without opening the case to see if the gun is actually inside? A brand new one from manufacturer with the zip tie still on.

I’ve worked in two shops and the procedure in both is to verify ALL information on the incoming firearm, whether new or used, distributor, manufacturer or FFL to FFL.

Too easy to make a dyslexic mistake. Also why when we sell at least two other people, once at the time of sale and once at the end of the day double check our work on 4473’s, the state RI-059 (Michigan Trigger Lock Statement) and the Michigan RI-060 (Michigan State Police Handgun Registration).

I wouldn’t have it any other way.

P.S.,and before I hand the customer the 4473 I have them inspect the firearm for any damage or missing accessories. Once they fill out the 4473 and the state forms before they sign it I have them inspect the serial number and compare it to the paperwork, no way will, I hand them a closed box without their inspection.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
I’ve worked in two shops and the procedure in both is to verify ALL information on the incoming firearm, whether new or used, distributor, manufacturer or FFL to FFL.
…
I wouldn’t have it any other way.

P.S.,and before I hand the customer the 4473 I have them inspect the firearm for any damage or missing accessories. Once they fill out the 4473 and the state forms before they sign it I have them inspect the serial number and compare it to the paperwork, no way will, I hand them a closed box without their inspection.

This.

“Trust, but verify. It’s an old Russian proverb.”

Yeah, that would be the thing to do, right? But, a funny thing happened on my visit to another SIG forum tonight.

Some noob came on and bragged about taking home his brand new SIG with the case still zip tied. LOL. He also asked another question which, after half an hour without a response, he impatiently jumped on the forum's throat. So I asked him the FFL didn't cut the "blue zip tie" to check the physical gun to enter it into his system? And, you took the case home like that? The boy got all defensive and didn't understand what the problem was, and insisted that his question be answered. Question was answered, and I went on to explain the ridiculous FFL situation:

Any FFL who does not check the gun physically to be absolutely sure is an idiot. You cannot rely on indirect information to enter serial number into the system. Yes, any info not on the gun itself is indirect info, and errors can happen. And I don't care if the case is zip tied 10 times. Your livelihood, and if you screw up, the ATF is going to come down on you hard.

And, how in the hell does one know a gun is inside if you don't look? I'm glad it was in there for your sake. What if you took the zip tied case home, opened it and a brick was in there?? How are you going to prove anything? Always check your physical gun to your satisfaction at the FFL, before taking ownership.

After a short while, boy got all upset, deleted all his posts, took his ball and went home. Seriously, I have never known or heard of any FFL dealers not opening the box to check the physical gun. But, if true, his FFL is really an idiot.

I always open to verify info on the firearm. But, I have received transfers where it was obvious the firearm was never opened up. My memory isn't the best but if I recall correctly it was from one of the big online retailers.

I always open them and check. My business is small enough that it's not a big imposition and it saves me from trouble later. I have never found a new gun where the serial number on the box did not match, but I have found where a distributor sent me a different gun than their invoice showed.

Bigger outfits that are getting a dozen or a hundred or whatever of a gun are almost certainly not doing this, especially with Sigs that have the factory blue zip tie.

I’ve never seen a zip tied case, so I’m going to assume every FFL I’ve dealt with looked at the firearm to record the serial number.

I’ve opened every case and looked as well before leaving the store or handing over the money.

I open every one I get.

I bought a new GLock 43 last year and they had failed to install sights. The dealer had to exchange the gun on the spot.

I only work through one FFL for both new as well as used and have done numerous transfers and on every one the FFL opens and looks at the gun and gets the serial number off of it and they make sure I look at it and it is what I ordered.... one time they had to call me because someone had reviewed the form and the serial number was hard to read on it and they wanted to make Sure they had it right.

My dealer will open the package when I arrive. Dealer will take the gun out of the case to confirm the serial number. Manufactures do make mistakes.

If I recall correctly some years ago (Can't find the article) a manufacture sent out a loaded rifle.

Having purchased a new gun a few times over the years, this year was the first time I ever saw the boxes zip tied. My local FFL asked me to cut the zip tie, and open the box then, he got info off the gun to complete the transfer. I just assumed it was something SIG started doing and didn’t give it another thought.

My FFL always has me inspect the weapon and then reads me the serial # from his copy of the receipt and forms as I verify it myself from the weapon. I've always appreciated their thoroughness.

I've never seen a zip-tied case, so I assume every FFL I've bought a new firearm from has done their part before I came into the picture.

Every gun I've ever bought from an FFL, the dealer checked the model and SN on the actual gun, and frequently (particularly on private transfers they facilitated) asked me to look and verify it as well.

There was one time when after doing all that, I took the gun home and a few days later got a phone call from the dealer. They wanted to re-verify the SN of the gun I had taken home. It turned out they had put it in the wrong box and still had the (empty) box with my gun's SN on it in the store. Messed up their bookkeeping a little; they were afraid they'd lost a gun somewhere.

Nope, never, I always open and verify the actual firearm. The box is just a box. Chances are they match, but Murphy's Law states when you fail to check it, they will NOT match or something else will be wrong.

TRUST, but VERIFY!! Just like ALWAYS checking to see if a gun is loaded...you check EVERY time.

I always open and verify as does my FFL.

Wonder if the FFL that is the topic of this discussion has "Blue" zip Ties and its his policy to open the case verify everything to enter into his books then to place a zip tie on the case as his way of keeping it intact and if he has employees keep them out of the case.

Actually not a bad idea as I have seen many posts about gun store employees playing with, handling and otherwise finger fucking sold and received customer guns which pisses me off to no end.

If its my gun that I had shipped to you as a receiving FFL keep your damn hands off the gun. I paid for it and don't want any and every store employee and any on looker that wants to handle and rack it or play with doing so.

Also I have bought a few guns at Cabela's and while they allow you to handle a gun before you buy one, but after the sale is complete an employee walks the gun and you to the store exit and then hands the gun to you which you are then instructed to leave the store.

For new and used transfers, I have always inspected the contents, and my FFLs also will inspect for correct serial number on all pertinent parts.

quote:

Originally posted by Mustang-PaPa:
Actually not a bad idea as I have seen many posts about gun store employees playing with, handling and otherwise finger fucking sold and received customer guns which pisses me off to no end.

I have chosen my FFLs based on this. They have policies not to fuck with other people's guns, and in recent years, this was important when I was buying single-action army revolvers. A guy messing with the 4 click hammer, and not knowing the correct sequences of lowering the hammer, can be beyond annoying.

I've never bought a new firearm where the FFL did not open the box and verify everything , AND give the gun to me for inspection .I wouldn't have it any other way .

Every FFL I've ever used physically inspects the firearm and verifies the serial number.
The hassle resulting from a mistake necessitates that.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
I have chosen my FFLs based on this. They have policies not to fuck with other people's guns, and in recent years, this was important when I was buying single-action army revolvers. A guy messing with the 4 click hammer, and not knowing the correct sequences of lowering the hammer, can be beyond annoying.

Very important to me as well, The FFL I have used for the last 10 years has no store front so has no employees to watch.

He cares as much or more about condition as I do.

I would hate to have to worry about unneeded handling of my guns. Hell most times I watch the tracking and see it delivered before he even knows about it and have been there when he opens the shipping boxes which is just fine with me.