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| Little ray of sunshine  |
You don't want to hear one of them explain it. It makes no sense. They use English words, but they literally don't make sense the way they string them together. They spout a lot of made up crap about how the government is illegitimate, and they, as humans (or free men) are not the same as the person the state recognizes the existence of. But don't trouble yourself with their explanations. They have no basis in fact or law, and are, quite literally gibberish. I've heard the explanations, and you can't keep them in your head because they are nonsense. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
Those are very often the same whackjobs. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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fugitive from reality |
That's kinda what I thought given their fascination with misusing terms like joinder and admiralty law. _____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
I suspect it's the natural evolution of the people who used to think the income tax amendment wasn't legally ratified and so they don't pay income taxes. Sadly, I've known at least two people who separately started being normal until they went down this path (the income tax part, that is). I have no doubt they went the Sovereign Citizen route also. It's very exhilarating and addictive when you get to a state of awareness of how things actually are and become part of a cabal of people who know these esoteric laws. It's like being in a cult. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Member |
Yes, these "sovereign citizens" are usually Ass Holes and their actions and words prove it without a doubt! | |||
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| Eschew Obfuscation |
They are addictive! I even enjoyed this one, which isn't even a video, but the recording of a 17 minute conference call between an attorney and one of these sovereign citizens: https://youtu.be/RDLpLGphd6s _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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| Eschew Obfuscation |
A lot of these folks sound like they've been taught certain scripts that they simply regurgitate without any idea of what they mean. In one of the videos I watched, the driver keep citing Terry v Ohio, saying the case prohibited the police from opening the door of his car.  At least he was in the ballpark. Except he had it backwards because the decisions that built on Terry don't prohibit - but allow - the police to search the area of a car within the driver's reach if they suspect the driver might have access to a weapon. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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Member |
try dealing with one. they are so fun. Had to deal with one who didnt understand simple things, like the US doesnt recongize the empire of whatever. Used guns deserve a home too | |||
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Void Where Prohibited |
LEOs should be able to taze them immediately upon hearing the first of their nonsensical utterances. "Am I being detained?" **ZAP** "I don't recognize your authority" **ZAP** "You work for me" **ZAP** **ZAP** "Speeding is not a valid reason to stop me" **ZAP** "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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Objectively Reasonable |
"I'm not driving. I'm traveling." "Government can't own property, so I can't be charged with stealing government property." "That flag has fringe on it. This must be a military court. I can't be tried in a military court." Sigh. | |||
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| Member |
You guys have shared some of the more mild things.  I have defended some of our local officers who have arrested them. These guys often file liens against public officials who cross them, and/or file lawsuits. That interferes with their insurance and especially ability to refinance mortgages. The most memorable guy did this several times, and is now doing time.  I had him declared a vexatious litigator, and this prevented him from filing future lawsuits. I was proud of that. In all formal pleadings, he used a semicolon in between his first name and last name. To him, this had legal significance. to the court, it did not. By the way, that tape is gold. I should have video or audiotaped some of my depositions. | |||
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| Member |
This is a great vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_v2713nUHw Small town lawyer likes to sit down and drink some scotch and discuss the law on youtube. He goes through a bunch of Sovereign Citizen videos and explains their stupidity. He goes over what they are trying to reference and why it is wrong. I think he does great videos but some of the livestreams go long. | |||
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| The Constable |
Look up the "Freemen movement" on Wiki. We dealt with them here in MT in the late 80's. In a nutshell...a scam to avoid Taxes or paying back USDA Ag Loans. They were centered around the Jordan area. Finally the FBI came out and eventually arrested a mess of them, took their Land, etc. They were a PITA to deal with. Refused to wear seat belt, refused to get a DL or register a vehicle. Issued their own license plates, etc. Several lived in one of my Towns in my area of responsibility. So I was the ONLY real Government "Official" they had to screw with. Lucky me. I got a lot of harassing and threatening calls. Which allowed me to really arm up, bought a Benelli 12 ga Tactical shotgun, and my first good AR's. So Thank You Freemen for that. | |||
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Member |
Funny you mention the Montana Freemen. I was involved with a man here in NC, James V. Wells, who was sending them money for their beliefs. Only thing, though, was he was sending them sales tax he charged customers at his business, as well as withholding taxes from his employees paycheck. If I remember correctly, he sent over $100k to them. Got out in August of 2006 and died that October. IRS CI was intimated involved in that case, but the USDA OIG was lead. ========================================== Just my 2¢ ____________________________ Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫ | |||
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delicately calloused |
I admit that sometimes I skip to the good part.... You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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Don't Panic |
Is that even theoretically possible? I note with interest my local cinema megaplex is showing Monty Python and the Holy Grail in theaters a couple times next month. Good times. Now, if they had a showing of "Sovereign Citizens and the Holy Taser" - well, I'd go see that too. | |||
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| Eschew Obfuscation |
Well done. You should be proud. LEOs have it tough enough without having their personal lives and finances screwed with by these people. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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Member |
Recently I had in a welding class that I was a substitute teacher a 50 year old student. His tuition was paid for by the state to help him get employment. While waiting for class to end he was telling a high school student that received a speeding ticket that he should not pay it. The guy then tells the student he is a Sovereign Citizen and the student should tell the judge that he was "traveling" not driving. With 5 minutes to go, I just looked at my co-teacher and shook my head. There was no time to start telling the guy he was an idiot and leave the kid alone and pay his speeding ticket. Living the Dream | |||
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