Fireworks factory, Hezbollah missile storage, call it what you want. It’s no different than when we talk about the 3 gorges dam. It’s a bunch of normal people like you guys and me. A significant portion of their city is destroyed, and many have been killed or injured.

I feel really sorry for the innocent, average, normal people who’re affected by this.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
While NUKEMAP is a neat tool, I think 2.75kT is a bit high for an estimate.

Why? That is a number given by a Lebanese official at a press conference, though he said 2,750 tons.
2,750 tons is 2.75 kilotons [2,750 tons * 1 kt/1000 tons = 2.75 kt]
If any one is likely to know the scope of the blast, it is a leb.gov official.The blast pressure from NUKEMAP is close to what is seen on the ground.
So until new info is provided by the leb.gov, I’m sticking with what the leb.gov says.

Why?
Your math is correct aside of 2750x.42. = 1155 which equals 1.15 kt.
Because AN is only 42% as explosive as TNT.
When measuring nuclear force, i.e. kiloton, it is referring to 1000 tons (2 million pounds) of TNT.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Beancooker,

Viewed a video of the blast that was taken quite some distance away.
The man taking the video was blown off of his feet and caught these images of his co-worker within the video.

quote:

Originally posted by Beancooker:
Fireworks factory, Hezbollah missile storage, call it what you want. It’s no different than when we talk about the 3 gorges dam. It’s a bunch of normal people like you guys and me. A significant portion of their city is destroyed, and many have been killed or injured.

I feel really sorry for the innocent, average, normal people who’re affected by this.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
While NUKEMAP is a neat tool, I think 2.75kT is a bit high for an estimate.

Why? That is a number given by a Lebanese official at a press conference, though he said 2,750 tons.
2,750 tons is 2.75 kilotons [2,750 tons * 1 kt/1000 tons = 2.75 kt]
If any one is likely to know the scope of the blast, it is a leb.gov official.The blast pressure from NUKEMAP is close to what is seen on the ground.
So until new info is provided by the leb.gov, I’m sticking with what the leb.gov says.

Why?
Your math is correct aside of 2750x.42. = 1155 which equals 1.15 kt.
Because AN is only 42% as explosive as TNT.
When measuring nuclear force, i.e. kiloton, it is referring to 1000 tons (2 million pounds) of TNT.

Bean cooker is correct. Compared to most other monomolecular energetics such as TNT, ammonium nitrate is a very poor performer. Plus, you are assuming that 100% of the net mass of the AN detonated. That is not how a cook off initiation mechanism in this case (known as DDT, deflagration to destination transition) works. A potion of the AN would have been decomposed prior to detonation, while the fire heated up the bulk. After melting, AN starts to decompose above approximately 200C.

Ammonium Nitrate, AND fuel oil makes a dandy explosive.

Ask the PIRA or your own home-grown bomber, McVeigh.

Back in 2004 a few boxcars full of bags of the stuff, blew up when the cars it was in were in a rail consist of LPG - right next to them. In a bad case of inept railcar switching, the rear-end car hit a loading ramp, the train consist reared up and made contact with the overhead power lines, the LPG cars blew up, followed closely by the estimated couple of hundred tons of Ammonium nitrate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryongchon_disaster

I wrote the report used by UK's Channel 4 on that one.

Heres some footage of the aftermath.
Sorry, cant embed from my phone...

https://youtu.be/izlIwYf4C4U

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
Ex- EOD friend replied with this when I asked him

“Guessing but A no crater on site, B pattern is fairly even at least from the views I could get, C the cloud has a very distinct reddish tinges. [...]

There is a crater allright. Seems the blast blew away the pier and opened it to the sea.

Long and good analysis here: https://www.bellingcat.com/new...t-blew-up-in-beirut/

Ammonium nitrite was in a warehouse, not on a ship. Warehouse is now a crater. Initial estimate is equivalent to 240 tons of TNT.

A before & after picture from Metro News (UK)

Give you a sense of the size and placement of the crater

That big silo saved a lot more from being destroyed behind it.

As a "construction guy" my mind immediately goes to, how I would I rebuild this? This is going to be a monumental effort even if money was no object. It will be quite some time before that area is back to anything close to normal.

The report I saw this morning said only 100 dead. While that is a horrible number, it's much smaller than I would have thought looking at those pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
That big silo saved a lot more from being destroyed behind it.

My immediate thought as well. From the videos of the explosion itself, I expected the silo to be totally flattened.

Me three. It appears some of them were holding sand and I'm guessing the contents helped absorb some of the impact saving the rest of the structure.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
Me three. It appears some of them were holding sand and I'm guessing the contents helped absorb some of the impact saving the rest of the structure.

In the Near/Middle East? Why would you put sand in a grain silo?

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
Long and good analysis here: https://www.bellingcat.com/new...t-blew-up-in-beirut/

Ammonium nitrite was in a warehouse, not on a ship. Warehouse is now a crater. Initial estimate is equivalent to 240 tons of TNT.

Ah yes.



Under the circumstances, the city probably was somewhat lucky that about 135 degrees of the blast front went mostly out to sea, and another 75 or so degrees were shielded a bit by the silos, whatever was in them.

As a comparison to our Texas City accident in the US in 1947, the first ship to explode, the SS Grandcamp, carried ~2200 tons of AN. The 2nd ship to explode, the SS High Flyer, carried ~961 tons of AN. Around 581 people were killed. The Grandcamp's 2-ton anchor was thrown 1.6 miles.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
Me three. It appears some of them were holding sand and I'm guessing the contents helped absorb some of the impact saving the rest of the structure.

In the Near/Middle East? Why would you put sand in a grain silo?

Could be sand for construction/concrete. River sand is most typically used for this purpose; just any sand won't work so well.

https://i.postimg.cc/CKJ1DRrB/Eenah-Gf-Uw-AAx4-W9.jpg

Apparently showing the method of storage prior to the explosion....

related to above photo link by tacfoley:




https://www.moonofalabama.org/...t-blast-wrap-up.html

Yesterday 2.750 tons of ammonium nitrate stored in a warehouse at the port of Beirut, Lebanon, exploded. The blast killed more than 100 people and wounded more than 4,000. Many buildings in Beirut were severely damaged. The pressure wave broke windows as far 10 miles away. Beirut's port is mostly destroyed. Lebanon's national grain reserve , stored in grain silos next to the explosion, is gone.

In 2013 Lebanese authorities arrested a ship (pdf) that had been abandoned by its owner:

On 23/9/2013, m/v Rhosus, flying the Moldovian flag, sailed from Batumi Port, Georgia heading to Biera in Mozambique carrying 2,750 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in bulk.
En route, the vessel faced technical problems forcing the Master to enter Beirut Port. Upon inspection of the vessel by Port State Control, the vessel was forbidden from sailing. Most crew except the Master and four crew members were repatriated and shortly afterwards the vessel was abandoned by her owners after charterers and cargo concern lost interest in the cargo. The vessel quickly ran out of stores, bunker and provisions.
...
Owing to the risks associated with retaining the Ammonium Nitrate on board the vessel, the port authorities discharged the cargo onto the port’s warehouses. The vessel and cargo remain to date in port awaiting auctioning and/or proper disposal.

The ammonium nitrate was stored in a quayside warehouse. The picture shows the 1,000 kilogram big bags labeled "Nitroprill HD" in bad storage conditions at the 'Hanger 12' warehouse in Beirut.

"Nitroprill HD" is a knock-off product of the trademarked Nitropril, a premium grade porous prilled ammonium nitrate manufactured and sold by the Orica Mining Services in Australia. It is used as a commercial explosive in mining and quarrying . The safety sheet of the original product says it "May explode under confinement and high temperature, but not readily detonated. May explode due to nearby detonations."

An Orica safety assessment (pdf, Appendix III) sets the TNT (military explosive) equivalence for fire of bulk Nitropril in big bags at 15%. 2,750 tons of Nitropril are thereby the equivalent of 412.5 tons of TNT.

A video taken from the top of the grain silos next to the warehouse shows uncontrolled explosions of small fireworks within a port warehouse near to where the ammonium nitrate was stored. The small crackling fireworks explosions are followed by a very huge one. The video is consistent with other videos taken from further away. What set of the fireworks which set off the ammonium nitrate is yet unknown but it is assumed to have been accidental.

A look at the quay from the east with the crater of the explosion in front of the grain silos. The silos have protected the western part of the city from more damage. Wheat has spilled out. The grain reserves of Lebanon are down to less than a month of consumption.

The ammonium nitrate should not have been stored in a warehouse within the city.

RFERL spoke with the captain of the ship that unintentionally had brought the ammonium nitrate to Lebanon. He confirms the ship's arrest. It also reports the cause of the incident:

Lebanon's LBCI-TV reported on August 5 that, according to preliminary information, the fire that set off the explosion was started accidentally by welders who were closing off a gap that allowed unauthorized entry into the warehouse.

LBCI said sparks from a welder's torch are thought to have ignited fireworks stored in a warehouse, which in turn detonated the nearby cargo of ammonium nitrate that had been unloaded from the MV Rhosus years earlier .

Independent experts say orange clouds that followed the massive blast on August 4 were likely from toxic nitrogen dioxide gas that is released after an explosion involving nitrates.

The source said a fire had started at port warehouse 9 on Tuesday and spread to warehouse 12, where the ammonium nitrate was stored.
That the ammonium nitrate was stored for seven years was not the responsibility of the port management but was caused by some judicial quarrel:

The head of Beirut port and the head of customs both said on Wednesday that several letters were sent to the judiciary asking for the dangerous material be removed, but no action was taken.
Port General Manager Hassan Koraytem told OTV the material had been put in a warehouse on a court order, adding that they knew then the material was dangerous but “not to this degree”.

“We requested that it be re-exported but that did not happen. We leave it to the experts and those concerned to determine why,” Badri Daher, director general of Lebanese Customs, told broadcaster LBCI.

Two documents seen by Reuters showed Lebanese Customs had asked the judiciary in 2016 and 2017 to request that the “concerned maritime agency” re-export or approve the sale of the ammonium nitrate, which had been removed from cargo vessel Rhosus and deposited in warehouse 12, to ensure port safety.

Watch on Al Jazeera how a Lebanese politician answers a direct question with snake-oil salesman skills -

Asked, 'whose is it'? Answer? Well YOU decide it he actually answers at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWWMv40ScJk

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
Could be sand for construction/concrete. River sand is most typically used for this purpose; just any sand won't work so well.

The silos held a major part of Lebanon's imported national grain reserve. They have now less than one month supply remaining.