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| Member |
Just to make sure everyone is aware of what has NOT been publicized concerning EV's. Yeah the motors have a 98% efficiency and that all sounds just peachy. What is not being told is that a Natural Gas powered Turbine generator has a thermodynamic efficiency of 35-40%. Also what is not being told is that the average Line Loss in the US electrical grid is 8%. So the net efficiency of the power supplied to your house via Natural Gas is 27-32%. Today's modern Internal Combustion Engines are good enough that they are capable of thermodynamic efficiencies of 33 to 36% at a steady cruise. Design a Hybrid around a constant speed ICE generator/motor set and you will not only have the range to go nearly anywhere you wish you'll also do it with a smaller Carbon Footprint than an EV. In addition you won't be creating superfund sites by dumping Lithium batteries in some barren spot and waiting for the batteries to go up in a planet polluting environmental disaster. Note, I don't think you will EVER see lithium batteries recycled and it's for one simple reason. Lithium in it's pure state is extremely unstable around water vapor. We all saw what happened at Burning Man. Now picture a rain event similar to that at the parking area in New Mexico where they are storing many thousands of EV batteries. BTW, if you don't believe any of this look it up fore yourself. Thermodynamic Efficiency of natural gas powered turbine generator Average Line Loss for USA electric grid Interesting, two years ago the result for this query was 8%, now it's 5%. Bet in another 2 years they'll be claiming 2% and in ten they will be claiming a net energy gain. Thermodynamic efficiency of gasoline 4 cycle engine Note that constant speed engine/generator setup would probably be pushing somewhere around 45%. I've stopped counting. | |||
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| My other Sig is a Steyr.  |
Naw man. Looks like a sweet ride. If you are having fun with it, what's not to like? | |||
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Member |
I do not disagree with you. But I leased an EV in 2014, bought it from them in 2017, because I make my own power at home so it was done for purely financial reasons. It’ll be 10 years of daily driving the thing come this February and I would do it again. And will upgrade to the newer one (will buy used) when I move rural, and I’ll have solar panels there too along with a windmill, and battery/generator backups. If I was straight pulling power for the EV off the grid it would not have been bought. I’d be in a cheap Honda Fit hatchback or something like it that was gas powered. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Conservative in Nor Cal constantly swimming up stream  |
I thought the negative would be against EV's in general. It is a sweet ride! ----------------------------------- Get your guns b4 the Dems take them away Sig P-229 Sig P-220 Combat | |||
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| Member |
I personally like EV's and would buy one for a daily driver if there was one that I really liked. Without more government interference to help the transition of EV's this whole push for EV's could actually destroy Ford and Stellantis. GM is quite a bit farther ahead with their battery development but they are also going to have a lot of difficulties hanging on until the EV acceptance is great enough to make them profitable. Right now the big 3 are losing billions on this EV rampup. I don't think most people realize how dire the situation is in the U.S. The EV transition is going well in most countries but in most countries gasoline is extremely expenses and people don't drive nearly much since their countries aren't so vast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aua_TatryhY https://www.businessinsider.co...to-beat-tesla-2023-7 | |||
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| Member |
Personally, I hope the situation gets much more dire. It's nothing more than trying to control your travel. Ever been on I95 during rush hour, I64 in the summer or I80 with the truckers? Anyone who thinks were going to happily riding around waving to each other in our EV's as we are saving the environment is in there own world. | |||
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| Member |
That’s what can happen when Politicians try and force the direction of just about anything. Free market has a tendency to work out much smoother. | |||
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| Member |
Your fellow forum friends are glad you are happy! It's your money to spend as you wish. I,for one, am very impressed with the recent advances in golf cart technology. ---------------------------------------------------- Dances with Crabgrass | |||
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Member |
I have nothing against, I just don’t know if subsidies from Uncle Sam is a good thing. If the EV stands on its own merit, so be it. Then the ‘free’ charging ports in some work lots has me questioning. If purely for the savings, when running the numbers with a Honda Accord, usually one never comes out ahead. Again, there can be an interesting and fun factor involved. I’m in WI, an average Winter day can easily top out at 15 degrees. Say those temps, parked outside, heater in use, I wouldn’t expect a lot of range. On a more cheerful note, I like a vehicle mix. I’m leaning towards a hybrid, gas engine but can plug into 110 outlet at home. Many trips are less than 20 miles, then back home. If longer the gas can be used. Yeah, the full sized truck stays, towing & such. I think about the only nickel mine in the USA is in the U.P. of MI, important mineral with electric vehicles. I know a big lefty, he’s against that nickel mine. There’s no reasoning with him. Just like with solar panels, the $$ seems to flow to China & similar countries for critical raw materials. Just some comments, enjoy the Ford EV Mustang. | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Not sure how being on Solar for power means no cost to operate an EV. One needs to figure out the cost per kWH for the solar system since it isn't free to buy. Once that is done, figure out the kWH used to keep the EV charged then the cost to charge the vehicle becomes apparent. EV Solar charging has a cost, but like poker chips in a casino, the real dollar value is hidden, since there isn't a monthly bill it's masked.... Now if the solar is leased for $400 a month, then you could easily calculate your kWH cost per mile looking at the total energy produced, total the EV uses divided into the monthly lease. These must have been the similar conversations as self powered vehicles started when everyone was on a Horse, by the way, EV's were some of the earliest vehicles made, developed for city driving, no getting out and hand cranking, no explosion engines, it's not a new idea by any means for personal transportation. Interesting enough all of the same problems from those early EV's that stopped mass adoption are the same we see today, plus the environmental issues associated with production. | |||
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| I Am The Walrus |
Has anyone done a long term study on how many miles it would take over so much time to break even versus a ICE vehicle of similar size and cost? Factoring in things such as: -maintenance -repairs -upgrading electrical system to charge at home -insurance _____________ | |||
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| Member |
See, this is where I think a dual-fuel car would be good. I typically only use my truck for short jaunts as I have a take home work car. That said I would prefer my ICE engine for road trips which my truck does once or twice a year. That means 95% of the time a EV would be fine but I don't feel like buying a whole new car just for that. I think I would not be able to do full handsfree as is apparently planned but as long as they keep manual controls there are times on longer trips that I would appreciate being able to kick it on and grab something from the back or to stretch independently and then resume manual control. | |||
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| Thank you Very little |
Link Car and Driver EV VS ICE In summary they calculated that EV's may or may not be less expensive than a comparable ICE vehicle. This was calculated over 3 years estimated cost of ownership based on government data on costs of electricity, gas, etc. You'd need to qualify for the Tax Credit to make it work, and that's based on average costs vs actual costs where you live. Not all EV's qualify based on plant location, battery content, cost of the EV and your income. Funny that the car they used the Hyundai isn't made in the USA, so it doesn't qualify for the $7500 but they used in the calculations, without it the EV doesn't make up for it's massive increase in purchase cost over the ICE version. Basically there are many factors in determining the BE, and longer term ownership of an EV could be higher if you end up needing to upgrade or replace a battery pack at 5, 7, 9 years... The same could be said if your ICE engine fails out of warranty as well... | |||
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Member |
I think GM was on the right track with the Volt. An EV most of the time, with an onboard ICE generator. IIRC, someone on here had one & had posted some of their running costs. I think one of these would be a great commuter option for those not wanting to go full EV, or not have to worry about the range. The Enemy's gate is down. | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
I suppose putting in a internal combustion engine and an electric motor is more costly than one or the other but the range and charging time is what makes the idea of a full EV at the current technology not feasible for an all around family car. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Member |
It is not necessarily more costly. I took delivery of my new Ford Maverick Hybrid XLT at the end of June 2023. Under $28K out the door including taxes, license and fees. Gets 43 MPG, for a range of 550 miles or so. It won't do zero to 60 in under 5 seconds, but it will haul 1,000 pounds in the bed. The first Hybrid Maverick in 2022 was the least expensive powerplant, the EcoBoost turbo was an extra cost option. For 2023, both powerplants had the same cost. For 2024, the Hybrid costs around $1,500 more. ---------------------------------------------------- Dances with Crabgrass | |||
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| I swear I had something for this |
My problem is that it's NOT a Mustang. Mach E is fine along with Mach E GT, but it's NOT a Mustang. Past that, it's the only non-Tesla close to my price range I'd actually buy. | |||
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Shaman |
I watched these electric vehicles absolutely SMOKE the little tuner shitboxes on the track. The ONLY thing that came close to taking one was a Corvette super car. The small body blazer with a huge V8 and a blower was a close second to the super car. The Tesla just walked away, like just casually waled away from everything. They have my respect!  He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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| Shaman |
RESPECT! He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
If you like it you like it. I'm not gonna rain on somebody else's parade  But, since you asked...
This ^^^^^ is why I've no interest in an EV. Ask me again when they get the battery tech to the point you can get the same mileage as one can typically get on a full tank of gasoline, charge times approach the time it takes to refill said tank, and charging stations are as ubiquitous as gas stations. For me it's not about saving the planet or not. It's not about how cool EVs or ICEVs are. It's not about being a dinosaur married to ICE tech. It's a simple question of utility. EVs simply don't have near the utility as ICEVs. Not even remotely comparably. I'm glad you are happy with your new car, though. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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