What say you diamond expert's Re: naturally occurring diamonds versus American made diamonds-both identical in atomic and chrystalin formation? Are they the same value? Why or why not?

E.g. color G, triple E, super ideal.

TIA!

If you're going to use them as bearings, sure, go with the lab ones.

If you're looking to impress someone...you already know the answer.

Personally, I never got the appeal of diamonds - I really like colored gems (rubies, sapphires, emeralds, etc.) but diamonds just leave me cold. (And, yes, I've seen some fairly nice ones - Crown Jewels in the Tower of London, e.g.)

monkey... another laugh; you're too much!

Considering costs, depreciation, potential loss, and any number of other factors, Moissanite stones are well worth consideration in lieu of diamonds.

My wife (when girlfriend) didn't want a diamond. I knew dave Truong was the guy I was using, but I couldnt bring myself to not buy a real diamond for her. I wanted a conflict diamond, David declined, so I got a California diamond from him, and I swear to god she gets comments on it daily.

I guess my point is, sigmonky is right. As usual.

A high quality colored stone will almost always be worth more than a high quality diamond. Not to mention that the price of diamonds is artificially inflated, and there are enough of them that should they ever flood the market it would make them worth very little. Diamonds are not as rare as the general public believes.

Nothing wrong with wanting to invest in a diamond if that's your thing, but if you're just wanting something that sparkles why not manufactured? Short of an expert looking at it, nobody would be the wiser.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
What say you diamond expert's Re: naturally occurring diamonds versus American made diamonds-both identical in atomic and chrystalin formation? Are they the same value? Why or why not?

E.g. color G, triple E, super ideal.

TIA!

I'm not an expert by any means and I'm sure that some will come along and correct part of what I'm going to say. Synthetic diamonds or CVD are almost identical to natural stones. I have run across quite a few and I have yet to see a gemologist even a graduated Gia gemologist who can determine that they are synthetic with just a loupe. There has been some new technology that has been developed to detect them but not many are using them. There are a lot of synthetics out in the market that have been passed off as natural.

That being said the problem with synthetic is most dealers or people who grow them base their price off of RAP and usually will say they are 60 back or 50 back compared to Natural diamonds. There's many different factors to consider when diamonds are priced, and that can get a little tricky.

For me using the price sheet for Naturals as a comparison on how to base the price for synthetic is not exactly the same and really should have a different standard. With that said The Growers of these synthetic diamonds still have to have them cut and Polished and there's some cost there. Then of course there's a cost of growing the stones on that part I have no idea what it cost to grow a synthetic versus having one mined.

I think that you will find that is synthetic with the characteristics that you're requiring triple x color G and I assume a decent clarity VS or even VVS the price will be high depending on what size of course.

I think you should start with is a price or a budget. Once you establish that start looking for the stone that fits your criteria and do a comparison of both natural and synthetic.

I can only relate recent personal experience.

After my mother passed away I took her 1 carat wedding ring to a jewelry shop and also a reputable pawn shop for valuation. Dad paid what I figure would be about $8,000 for it in today's dollars, so my interest was piqued.

The jeweler said they may be able to retail a similar stone/ring for 4-6k, but they obviously wouldn't buy it from me for that. The pawn shop said they could give me maybe $1500 for the diamond if it was indeed at least a carat, and the ring would just bring the scrap value for the gold content.
Less than a carat and it would not have been worth the powder it would take to blow it to hell - my wording not theirs.

I still have it.

Just my opinion, but I can't see any logic in diamonds, genuine or otherwise, as an investment unless you are in the jewelry trade already.

quote:

Originally posted by cmr076:
My wife (when girlfriend) didn't want a diamond. I knew dave Truong was the guy I was using, but I couldnt bring myself to not buy a real diamond for her. I wanted a conflict diamond, David declined, so I got a California diamond from him, and I swear to god she gets comments on it daily.

I guess my point is, sigmonky is right. As usual.

Why would you want a conflict diamond?

Always know there is about always a triple keystone when jewelry is priced to most people

For those that don’t know what the keystone pricing is...

Artisin sellsto wholesaler for $100

Wholesaler sells to store for $200

Store sells to customer at $400+

I already have the budget and I've looked at "real stones" for a few months now. The intended prospect was shown a man-made "diamond" and was quite impressed. So much so she is leaning that way. I'm trying to discern if they are of equal value to the "real thing". Do they come certified from GIA or IGA?

I'm not debating the worth of diamonds or any other gemstones value other than the comparative qualifiers as I've stated.

This is for someone who has supported me in every possible way over the past seven years, and this is what she wants so I'm willing to do whatever it takes to satisfy her wishes - easily.

Personally I think diamonds are nearly fraudulent, run by a controlled monopoly but that's not the point of all this.

Despite the extensive knowledge shared here and the advancements in man made stones there is no way I could stomach the thought of buying a "fake" diamond. Shop hard, buy real, but don't dare pay retail.

quote:

I'm trying to discern if they are of equal value to the "real thing".

It depends on what you're looking at. In the "average" range the lab stones are less than diamonds. Possibly up to half the price. Just like mother nature, labs have a difficult time producing high quality stones. As the quality goes up the price gets closer to equal.

quote:

Do they come certified from GIA or IGA

GIA and IGI both grade them.

quote:

there is no way I could stomach the thought of buying a "fake" diamond.

Depends on what you're looking at. Something like Moissanite is "fake". It looks like a diamond. It's very similar to a diamond, but ultimately it is not a diamond.

Lab diamonds are 100% real diamond. Very difficult to tell from one mined from the earth.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
I already have the budget and I've looked at "real stones" for a few months now. The intended prospect was shown a man-made "diamond" and was quite impressed. So much so she is leaning that way. I'm trying to discern if they are of equal value to the "real thing". Do they come certified from GIA or IGA?

I'm not debating the worth of diamonds or any other gemstones value other than the comparative qualifiers as I've stated.

This is for someone who has supported me in every possible way over the past seven years, and this is what she wants so I'm willing to do whatever it takes to satisfy her wishes - easily.

Personally I think diamonds are nearly fraudulent, run by a controlled monopoly but that's not the point of all this.

GIA and IGI do not grade the same. GIA is the standard, many a stone graded by IGI,EGL,IGL, and GSL will grade lower if submitted to GIA. Synthetic/CVD is a diamond of course the industry will say they are not are less because they are not natural. Of course they say that in order to keep the natural market inflated. The way I have described it is comparing a fountain Coke to a Bottle of Coke. Both are Coke and will taste about the same but the fountain drink is cheaper and can taste a little different but both are still Coke.

Synthetics are regularly submitted to GIA for grading and GIA will do a report on them state the specifics of the stone along with a disclaimer stating is a synthetic.I think you find the price is not very different, synthetic dealers will always claim to be 20-50% less than natural but the markup is so high there is not much difference.

I will say synthetics are beautiful and as I have stated before I have yet to see any Gemologist tell the difference with a loupe of naked eye. They look the same, will have inclusions just like a natural stone, because chemically it is the same. If you are happy with the look of the synthetic and the price is right go for it.

I think it comes down to your objective and mindset. If you are trying to buy investment quality stones I would never buy synthetic. But very few of us buy true investment quality stones because of the insane costs involved. That is better left to the gem investment folks and if you were one of those folks you would not be asking the question on this forum. For most of us the objective is to get a very nice article of jewelry for someone special or ourselves. For many people, the knowledge that the stones are not the "real deal" significantly reduces the significance of the gift. In the case of natural vs synthetic only you will know since both are technically the same. Beyond that, I generally do not believe in spending a lot of money on quality. As long as the stones appear colorless and free of inclusions and obvious flaws as mounted in the jewelry I am OK with it. None of your friends and family will know unless you tell them. Most of us are not GIA jewelers.

In the final analysis, buying an expensive piece of jewelry is all about demonstrating to an important person in your life that you value your relationship with them enough to purchase a totally useless item that they can show to their friends and family. It gives you or your special person "bragging rights". I love giving my wife and daughter jewelry. They each have several very expensive and unique pieces and get comments regularly. The value is being able to tell a complete stranger how much their husband/dad values them. It's a personal decision.

Last time I was diamond shopping for the wife, here's what I did:

I took her several places and got a pretty good idea of the style she wanted. (This was not an anniversary, engagement or wedding ring.)

Once I figured out what style she wanted, I started looking at pawn shops over the course of the next few weeks. I ended up finding a ring in the style she wanted that would've cost over $5000 for less than $1000. She loves it, and it was certified by GIA.

Fast forward a year later, and we just happened to see the same ring for sale in a store for $5,995. The stones were similar quality. Granted, the store would probably come down from the tagged price, but certainly not anywhere near what I paid. Deals are out there everyday at the pawn shops!

When the wife and I got married, we were way young, couldn't afford much, but I got her what she wanted in a size we could afford - small, but two white diamonds, one on either side of a blue diamond.
then at the 5 year mark, I "upgraded" and got a bigger ring. the stones definitely bigger in the new ring, at nearly a Karat each, but instead of going with diamonds, I went with two London-blue topaz on either side of a manufactured diamond, all three a heck of a lot bigger compared to the first, but the second ring was only a couple hundred more than the original ring/band set. Sure, the "value" isn't there because it's "fake," but the people complementing my wife on her ring don't know or care. she loves it, it looks pretty, and it was a gift from me, so that's all she really cares about.

quote:

Just my opinion, but I can't see any logic in diamonds, genuine or otherwise, as an investment unless you are in the jewelry trade already.

I got the idea somewhere that diamond values are based upon the "illusion of rarity," which may have existed when the diamond industry first took off, but is now not much more than a myth. Of course, when shopping for the "perfect diamond" of cut, color, clarity, etc. then the "good" ones can seem pretty rare.

quote:

Deals are out there everyday at the pawn shops!

Pawnshops are a great option, as are private sellers (the same ones pawn shops buy from) IF you know what you're looking at.

I've been setting up at National Gunday for near 20 years. Diamonds and Rolex watches are often there at pawn shop prices. Last show the premier Rolex guy (been around for years with a stellar reputation) had a table full of bling and he was dealing. Educate yourself and pay cash. One solid offer is better than a thousand lookers.