quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Sargents making 180K a year???WTF!

Those officers make LITERALLY 4 times what I do yearly....

Same. Sounds like we need to move to Baltimore. (Oh, wait... Scratch that...)

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Sargents making 180K a year???WTF!

Those officers make LITERALLY 4 times what I do yearly....

I believe all of these guys making over 150k are homicide. I know a BPD Major who told me he took a huge paycut when he left homicide.

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
holy shit

I'm in the wrong business

I average a 60 hour week for about half of what they make...

is it too late to get into this gravy train?

Don't believe a word of it. I make about 65K(with OT) but the local papers here like to report government wages that I make $110K. They frequently include the cost of all of our benefits in the totals they throw out there.

So if you make $65K/year (I am assuming gross, not net), and your employer pays $55K per year in benefits such as healthcare, unemployment, disability, retirement (defined benefit retirement plans are very expensive for employers), you are saying you get nothing of value from that $55K, you wouldn't mind if they cancelled such?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20171115-story.html

Prosecutors rested their case today. Defense team called `3 witnesses, then they rested also.

Closing arguments tomorrow morning .

Rice’s administrative trial began Monday with opening statements from Neil Duke, an attorney prosecuting the case for the city, and Rice’s attorney Michael Davey, who also serves as an attorney for the police union.

During the course of the trial, Duke (prosecutor) called six witnesses, including four Baltimore officers who were serving under Rice that day and two Montgomery County Police Department officers who were involved in that agency’s review of Gray’s arrest and the recommendation that Rice be charged administratively.

The Baltimore officers largely backed Davey’s (defense lawyer) account of Rice’s actions — that they were reasonable and based on concerns for officer safety related to Gray’s combativeness, a threatening crowd that formed at the scene of his arrest, and the tight confines of the police van. The Montgomery County officers defended their investigation but conceded under cross-examination to several contentions raised by Davey that seemed to undercut the charges.

IOW 4 of the prosecutor's witnesses were great defense witnesses


Davey’s first witness was a lieutenant who previously worked for former then-Police Commissioner Anthony Batts and who had flagged safety issues with police vans in 2014. His second witness was a police commander in charge of policy revisions, who acknowledged department failures in disseminating rules related to the safe transport of detainees in police vans at the time of Gray’s arrest.

Davey then called his third and final witness: a crash reconstruction and “occupant kinematics” expert who testified that Gray was safer on the floor of the van, where Rice placed him, than he would have been on the van’s bench in a seat belt.

The panel that will decide the case is chaired by Prince George’s County Police Maj. Melvin Powell and includes Baltimore Police Capt. Charles Thompson and Baltimore Police Lt. Bryant Moore.

http://www.wbaltv.com/article/...ary-hearing/13761004

Lt. Robert Quick (who is in charge of writing BPD policy) said:

"In my opinion, sir, the wagon itself is the problem. If we transported in cars instead of wagons, we wouldn't even be here," Quick said. "I don't think the seat belts prevent anything."


Police Department attorneys argue that a new seat belt policy -- No. 1114 -- was announced three days before Gray's arrest, and so, as shift commander, Rice was ultimately responsible for Gray being buckled in.


Quick said the Police Department dropped the ball by rolling out its new seat belt policy in a vacuum. Instead of putting a printed copy in each officer's hands, as required, policy 1114 was emailed in a document dump along with five others, some 80 pages of PDF files.

The email wasn't flagged and wasn't easy to access. At the time, Quick said, BPD members didn't have laptops, didn't always have access to desktop computers and were using cellphones that either couldn't open the files or made them impossible to read.

"Shortly after this incident, we quickly realized this is a system we have to fix," Quick said.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:


Don't believe a word of it. I make about 65K(with OT) but the local papers here like to report government wages that I make $110K. They frequently include the cost of all of our benefits in the totals they throw out there.

So if you make $65K/year (I am assuming gross, not net), and your employer pays $55K per year in benefits such as healthcare, unemployment, disability, retirement (defined benefit retirement plans are very expensive for employers), you are saying you get nothing of value from that $55K, you wouldn't mind if they cancelled such?

Oh, come on now, Scoutmaster, you know that isn't what he said. In general usage, 'salary,' and 'pay' refer to the wages earned by the employee, not 'total compensation,' which includes the value of retirement and other benefits. The point gw3971 is making, is that "news" organizations like to take advantage of the ignorant and deliberately conflate the two to sensationalize a story.

April 2017 article on BPD overtime

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20170408-story.html

The Police Department is on pace to exceed its $17 million overtime budget by nearly $30 million

that would be 47 million in BPD overtime

Officials say the rising costs go hand-in-hand with staffing shortages amid a sharp rise in crime. City Hall has cut the number of sworn police officers by one-sixth over the past two years , but the Police Department still hasn't been able to hire officers fast enough to keep pace with attrition.

in comparison,

Baltimore County police spent about $8.1 million on overtime in fiscal year 2016

Anne Arundel County spent $7.54 million

Howard County police spent $6.86 million on overtime

**********

the salary data in the above posts isn't "what is being reported by the media", the salary data is from an official Baltimore City database

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
holy shit

I'm in the wrong business

I average a 60 hour week for about half of what they make...

is it too late to get into this gravy train?

Don't believe a word of it. I make about 65K(with OT) but the local papers here like to report government wages that I make $110K. They frequently include the cost of all of our benefits in the totals they throw out there.

So if you make $65K/year (I am assuming gross, not net), and your employer pays $55K per year in benefits such as healthcare, unemployment, disability, retirement (defined benefit retirement plans are very expensive for employers), you are saying you get nothing of value from that $55K, you wouldn't mind if they cancelled such?

If the paper said Officer Dumpty made $200,000 in pay and benefits, I'd say wow. If they said Officer Dumpty made $200,000 last year, I and most others hear 'in pay' and call horse shit. Which is what I suspect the Baltimore Fishwrap actually wanted.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:...If the paper said Officer Dumpty made $200,000 in pay and benefits, I'd say wow. If they said Officer Dumpty made $200,000 last year, I and most others hear 'in pay' and call horse shit. Which is what I suspect the Baltimore Fishwrap actually wanted.

Maybe that's the diff between us. I have done corporate accounting and always consider labor at gross payroll cost and fully burdened labor cost (it was the "benefits" that bankrupted GM).

"Baltimore Fishwrap" ???

here is a sample snapshot of the Baltimore database for 2017 salaries (FY June 2016 to July 2017)




The red arrow shows the entry for one Baltimore officer

This particular database is for all City employees, not just police

Look at the "annual" and "gross" entries.

in most cases they are very similar. The gross salary does not appear to include other compensation.

also see the above post about $47 million in FY17 for BPD overtime


link to the database

https://data.baltimorecity.gov...ies-FY2017/fh59-3d3c

an additional fact that verifies the "gross" salaries are "base pay + overtime" without including any other compensation:

I dumped the police salaries into a spreadsheet. Whenever "Gross" was bigger than "Annual", I summed the difference between gross and annual.

That sum is $ 45.1 million

Remember from an earlier post:

"The Police Department is on pace to exceed its $17 million overtime budget by nearly $30 million"

It matches.



database: Baltimore Police Overtime

https://data.baltimorecity.gov...e-Overtime/4wyn-g3gd

more evidence how screwed up this process has been

This report is 2 days old

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...ial-day-2-story.html

The administrative trial of Baltimore Police Lt. Brian Rice in the arrest of Freddie Gray appeared to falter Tuesday, as Rice’s attorney and trial board members sharply questioned the Montgomery County internal affairs chief upon whose findings the charges were based.

At times during his testimony, Capt. Willie Parker-Loan struggled to convey his rationale for findings that led to some of the charges against Rice. In some instances, he conceded to facts that undercut other findings.

Parker-Loan’s testimony, which took up the second half of the second day of Rice’s trial at the University of Baltimore, followed testimony from four officers who were serving under Rice in the Western District on the day of Gray’s arrest — all of whom cast the lieutenant’s actions that day as reasonable.

The case against Rice appeared to deflate at the conclusion of the day, with the three law enforcement officials presiding over the trial barely concealing their skepticism over the charges against Rice.

Rice is now charged administratively with failing to ensure Gray’s safety by not securing him with a seat belt, and with failing to fulfill his supervisory duties, including by not securing evidence and witnesses. He is also accused of failing to monitor his department radio and of failing to “take corrective action” when an order he gave to the van driver, Officer Caesar Goodson Jr., allegedly wasn’t followed.

Parker-Loan testified that those charges were based on his findings, which were in turn based on an investigation conducted by a detective in his unit and another investigator from Howard County

Neil Duke, prosecuting the case for the city, introduced Parker-Loan’s report as evidence, but was largely prevented from eliciting additional testimony from Parker-Loan because the panel agreed with Rice’s attorney, Mike Davey, that Parker-Loan was not an accepted expert on Baltimore police policies.

Parker-Loan acknowledged that the county investigation determined that Rice was completely unaware of a then-new Baltimore police policy requiring the seat-belting of detainees

He then agreed with Davey that, even under that policy, Rice had discretion as the shift commander in the Western District that day not to secure Gray in a seat belt.

When it came to the charge that Rice did not “take corrective action” after Goodson’s failure to take Gray to Central Booking, as Rice had initially ordered, Davey noted that Goodson had actually followed a subsequent order from Rice that he return the wagon to North Avenue to pick up another arrestee. Afterward, Parker-Loan appeared unable to answer Davey’s questions about the charge, or reconcile the charge with the facts.

Powell, the panel chair, questioned the thoroughness of the Montgomery County investigation. Baltimore Police Capt. Charles Thompson, another panel member, suggested that some of Parker-Loan’s testimony was “contradictory.”

And after Parker-Loan testified that the county investigation had “focused” only on the six officers who had previously been charged criminally in the case, the other trial board member, Baltimore Police Lt. Bryant Moore, questioned whether he had a “full picture” of the events.

Defense attorney Michael Davey argued that the BPD built its case on an incompetent investigation.

"The investigator didn't interview or even attempt to interview key witnesses," Davey said.

Davey said the findings are full of so many holes and contradictions that the panel should "give no weight whatsoever to any explanation the investigator gave on why Lt. Rice was charged. He couldn't even explain a number of the charges he recommended. It boggles the mind. It's ridiculous. It's scary."

amen

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:


Don't believe a word of it. I make about 65K(with OT) but the local papers here like to report government wages that I make $110K. They frequently include the cost of all of our benefits in the totals they throw out there.

So if you make $65K/year (I am assuming gross, not net), and your employer pays $55K per year in benefits such as healthcare, unemployment, disability, retirement (defined benefit retirement plans are very expensive for employers), you are saying you get nothing of value from that $55K, you wouldn't mind if they cancelled such?

Oh, come on now, Scoutmaster, you know that isn't what he said. In general usage, 'salary,' and 'pay' refer to the wages earned by the employee, not 'total compensation,' which includes the value of retirement and other benefits. The point gw3971 is making, is that "news" organizations like to take advantage of the ignorant and deliberately conflate the two to sensationalize a story.

Thanks Dr Dan. I haven't received a pay raise or anything else in the last 5 years or so. Five years ago i was shown as making $100k. The $10K increase in my "salary" is entirely due to the increase in our health insurance costs because of the unaffordable care act. interesting that the press shows I got $10k raise when the only thing that happened was a $10K tax increase.

Lt Rice acquitted of all charges

a good day

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20171117-story.html

Baltimore Police Lt. Brian Rice cleared of all administrative charges

A three-member panel of law enforcement officers announced its ruling at the University of Baltimore following a trial that began Monday.

Rice, 44, was the highest-ranking officer involved in Gray’s 2015 arrest. He had faced about 10 administrative charges, which alleged he failed to ensure Gray’s safety and failed to perform certain supervisory duties.


After the ruling was announced, Rice went directly to police headquarters to have his police powers reinstated so he can get back to the job

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
April 2017 article on BPD overtime

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20170408-story.html

The Police Department is on pace to exceed its $17 million overtime budget by nearly $30 million

that would be 47 million in BPD overtime

Officials say the rising costs go hand-in-hand with staffing shortages amid a sharp rise in crime. City Hall has cut the number of sworn police officers by one-sixth over the past two years , but the Police Department still hasn't been able to hire officers fast enough to keep pace with attrition.

in comparison,

Baltimore County police spent about $8.1 million on overtime in fiscal year 2016

Anne Arundel County spent $7.54 million

Howard County police spent $6.86 million on overtime

**********

the salary data in the above posts isn't "what is being reported by the media", the salary data is from an official Baltimore City database

It's laughable that they claim "city hall" cut the number of officers, like it was voluntary. Fact is they all fled after the Freddie Gray bullshit.

And yes those are real salaries for real officers. I just spoke to a guy who was top 10 in the BPD last year due to overtime.

This has been a long thread. But the end seems to be in sight.

Two remaining events:

#1 . Administrative trial of SGT White

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20171117-story.html

Baltimore Police Sgt. Alicia White is scheduled to be the third and final officer to stand trial on administrative charges related to the 2015 arrest and death of Freddie Gray.

Her trial is slated for Dec. 5.

Officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller accepted minor discipline and are back at work

A three-member panel of law enforcement officers will hear arguments in the case against White. If the panel sustains any of the charges, it will recommend a punishment to Police Commissioner Kevin Davis, who can accept that punishment or choose one of his own, up to and including termination.

If the panel finds White not guilty, that decision is final.

In 2015, White was charged criminally with manslaughter and other counts. Mosby dropped those charges.

"I still believe that, when I went to work that day, I did everything that I was trained to do," White said. "Unfortunately, that day someone lost their life. But I feel like everything I was trained to do, I did."

#2 Hearing on whether the officers can sue Mosby

U.S. Court of Appeals for Fourth Circuit
Richmond Virginia
6 December 2017

Edward Nero v Marilyn Mosby

Civil Rights: Whether Baltimore City state's attorney was entitled to absolute prosecutorial immunity, qualified immunity and/or state statutory immunity from suit

quote:

2 Hearing on whether the officers can sue Mosby

U.S. Court of Appeals for Fourth Circuit
Richmond Virginia
6 December 2017

Edward Nero v Marilyn Mosby

Civil Rights: Whether Baltimore City state's attorney was entitled to absolute prosecutorial immunity, qualified immunity and/or state statutory immunity from suit

If it is allowed to go forward, that is going to really interesting. I wonder how computers and email accounts are being or have been "scrubbed" or destroyed in the DA's office?

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Sargents making 180K a year???WTF!

Those officers make LITERALLY 4 times what I do yearly....

The real problem is what you're being paid for the work you do. It's shameful what they pay you guys. It's amazing they ever find even 10% who will take that on, and do an honest days work, and not be crooked, for those wages. Truly amazing.

I've had fresh out of college assistants (junior analysts, in every sense of junior) with zero experience who were barely above overglorified secretaries that were paid more on the day they were hired ($53k to start), and I can't imagine asking them to do your job...

You better love that work, truly, truly, love it, because you're being robbed, salary wise.

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:....Oh, come on now, Scoutmaster, you know that isn't what he said. In general usage, 'salary,' and 'pay' refer to the wages earned by the employee, not 'total compensation,' which includes the value of retirement and other benefits. The point gw3971 is making, is that "news" organizations like to take advantage of the ignorant and deliberately conflate the two to sensationalize a story.

I have done cost acct for gov't contractors. We always consider labor cost at the fully burdened amount.

Excellent news on Lt. Rice.

One more to go and then we see if they can extract a pound or 6 from Mosby.

SDY

The "Baltimore Fishwrap" is a name conservatives here in Murderland call the Baltimore Sun, aka
the Democrap party newsletter.