link

US vice-president Mike Pence has repeated a veiled threat of military intervention in Venezuela, but Washington appeared increasingly isolated in its willingness to contemplate using force to oust President Nicolás Maduro.

Both European powers and some of Donald Trump’s key Latin American allies – all of whom have recognised opposition leader Juan Guaido as Venezuela’s legitimate leader – warned that they would oppose sending troops into the country.

Guaidó had for weeks insisted his movement was focused on peaceful, democratic change. But after the opposition failed in a weekend bid to defy Caracas and bring aid into the country, he called on the international community to “keep all options open”.

That hint at the use of military force won an enthusiastic response from hawks like US senator Marco Rubio, but sparked alarm elsewhere, particularly as Trump has previously mooted ordering an invasion.

Speaking at an emergency summit of regional leaders in the Colombian capital Bogotá, Pence renewed the threat of intervention, describing Maduro as “a usurper”, and calling for a global push to oust him.

“To leaders around the world: it’s time. There can be no bystanders in Venezuela’s struggle for freedom,” he said. “We hope for a peaceful transition to democracy, but as President Trump has made clear, all options are on the table.”

But beyond the US, few appear willing embrace the prospect of violence. In Latin America, there is a painful and bloody history of US interventions, and the terrible fallout from the 2003 invasion of Iraq is another deterrent to the use of military force.

An invasion would be complicated and bloody, with a strong chance of sliding into protracted civil war. Venezuela has armed forces that are more than 300,000 strong, thousands more members of pro-government gangs or guerrilla groups, complex terrain – and a government that still has some support from international partners including China and Russia.

Brazil’s vice-president, retired general Hamilton Mourão, said on Monday that under no circumstances would his country allow the United States to intervene militarily from Brazilian territory, even though the country’s rightwing president Jair Bolsonaro has previously vowed to do “everything for democracy to be re-established” in Venezuela.

Colombian president Iván Duque, has also now ruled out intervention, according to sources in his administration. Chile and Peru were also among other regional powers opposing military action on Monday.

There was similar concern across the Atlantic, where European nations including Spain and Germany made clear they considered the deployment of troops a line that should not be crossed.

“Not every option is on the table,” the country’s foreign minister, Josep Borrell, told the Spanish news agency Efe on Sunday, in a blunt rebuke to both Guaidó and US supporters of intervention.

The European Union’s foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, insisted there could be no military solution to a political crisis.

“The origins of the ongoing crisis in Venezuela are political and institutional, hence the solution can only be a political one,” she said in a statement. “We reiterate our firm rejection and condemnation of violence and of any initiatives that can further destabilise the region.”

Ahead of the meeting of the Lima group of Latin American powers and Canada, Pence told Guaidó, attending as Venezuela’s interim president: “We are 100% with you.”

The Lima group also said credible threats have been made against the life of Venezuelan opposition leader Guaidó and his family, adding that President Nicolas Maduro was responsible for Guaido’s safety.

“We want to hold the usurper Maduro responsible for any violent action against Guaido, against his wife and against their relatives,” said Colombian Foreign Minister Carlos Holmes Trujillo, speaking on behalf of the group.

Pence said he would urge regional powers to freeze Venezuela’s oil assets and hand them over to Guaidó’s control. The opposition have reportedly already taken effective control of US-based refiner Citgo, one of the few remaining profitable assets of Venezuela’s state owned oil firm PDVSA.

Earlier that morning the US announced it had added four regional governors to an already long list of sanctioned Venezuelans, and Pence said that tougher measures were still to come.

“In the days ahead … the United States will announce even stronger sanctions on the regime’s corrupt financial networks. We will work with all of you to find every last dollar that they stole and work to return it to Venezuela.”

But much of Venezuela’s government and industry are already sanctioned, making it harder for Guaidó’s allies to ramp up financial pressure on the regime.

Why would we be so stupid as to get involved.

Those idiots voted for socialist bullshit, let them reap it. Why would this be our problem.

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
Why would this be our problem.

To keep Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba out of there.

It’s their revolution, let them fight it.

I don’t have a problem selling them weapons, but I am tired of US forces being shot at so locals don’t have to.

If they aren’t willing to fight, why should we? As for “Russia and China being on our door step”, may want to consult a globe. Venezuela isn’t exactly out “neighbor”

Seems the hawks always have to have the big bad “threat” of RUSSIA! If they didn’t launch the invasion from Cuba, doubt they will do it from Venezuela.

We are already embroiled in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and provide support to most of Europe. Getting stretched a little thin, I’d Like to see our “World Police Force” dialed back.

Add in all of our resounding “victories” in “Regime Change” and I see the potentional for just one more pit to be mired down in for the next 3-7 years.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I’d Like to see our “World Police Force” dialed back.

I think we all would.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
Why would this be our problem.

To keep Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba out of there.

I agree. We are not talking about Iraq or Afghanistan. This is too close to us to let the commies get a foorhold or even a takeover.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
Why would this be our problem.

To keep Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba out of there.

I agree. We are not talking about Iraq or Afghanistan. This is too close to us to let the commies get a foorhold or even a takeover.

Perhaps I’m missing something, but haven’t the commies had a foothold for the last two decades? Chavez became president in 1999 and it’s been commie ever since. If the sky hasn’t fallen in the last twenty years, why should we believe it will now?

The US should stay involved politically, but leave the troops out of the equation.

quote:

Originally posted by LoungeChair:
The US should stay involved politically, but leave the troops out of the equation.

"Be nice...until it's time to not be nice." - Dalton

Wouldn’t U.S. military intervention be contrary to everything the President has said about his view on foreign policy and the role of our military?

Keep in mind that latin america has plenty of illiterate, young, stupid people.

They understand NOTHING of world politics, and mostly not much about anything at all.

Stupid is as stupid does, said the great philosopher, the late Mama Gump.
Would they all these folks love to go take a shot at Gringos.
They would certainly do so all over the region.

Please, don`t provide them the opportunity.

Just my slightly educated opinion.

0-0

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
Wouldn’t U.S. military intervention be contrary to everything the President has said about his view on foreign policy and the role of our military?

I agree.

The 'neo-cons' think we should be running the world by sending (and keeping) our military everywhere.

It's crazy.

quote:

It’s their revolution, let them fight it.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by 0-0:
Keep in mind that latin america has plenty of illiterate, young, stupid people.

They understand NOTHING of world politics, and mostly not much about anything at all.

Stupid is as stupid does, said the great philosopher, the late Mama Gump.

I'm glad you said it, 0-0, rather than me. I knew it, but a norteamericano saying it, even if it's true and it's not out of racism, nationalism or any other -ism, comes across as belittling.

Latin America has a Catch-22 problem: The people are electing poor leaders because of how poorly-educated and poorly-informed they are. It is to the advantage of those "leaders" to keep their constituencies poorly-educated and poorly-informed so they can stay in power to their own advantage. Thus the never-ending cycle.

A lot, perhaps even most, U.S. citizens do not realize just how damn lucky we were, at the founding of our country, to have had in power people who were interested in forming a county to the benefit of the people, rather than themselves. "There but for the Grace of God..."

If the U.S. isn't careful--doesn't perform a course correction damn soon: We'll end up where Latin America is, and it won't be because of an invasion.

"A Republic, if you can keep it." -- Benjamin Franklin, following the Constitutional Convention, 1787

The "course correction" of which I speak, btw, isn't one to the left, right, center or whatever, but to getting our education system back to the business of educating and our "news" media back to informing of facts. The rest will take care of itself.

quote:

Originally posted by 0-0:
Would they all these folks love to go take a shot at Gringos.
They would certainly do so all over the region.

Please, don`t provide them the opportunity.

Just my slightly educated opinion.

0-0

More educated that a lot of norteamericanos, 0-0.

Frankly, I feel we should let Venezuela continue its downward spiral into chaos to show the world what happens when you combine one part human nature and one part socialism by live streaming everything that happens. Their neighbors can clean up the mess created when a Latin country once again put a tinpot dictator in charge or they can build a wall around the country, I don’t care which.

quote:

Originally posted by DrewR:
Frankly, I feel we should let Venezuela continue its downward spiral into chaos to show the world what happens when you combine one part human nature and one part socialism by live streaming everything that happens. Their neighbors can clean up the mess created when a Latin country once again put a tinpot dictator in charge or they can build a wall around the country, I don’t care which.

The world won't learn.

Venezuela is the classic case of the free stuff crowd outnumbering the hardworking “good guys”.

For those saying “reap it”, it might be wise to look in a mirror. There are more leftists than conservatives in the US, in 5-10-15 years when AOC and her ilk are in power, should we just say that “we deserve this”?

Also, the Venezuelan people are out in the streets constantly protesting, with no private firearms ownership allowed, in one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and against a dictatorship that has shown over and over again that they don’t mind killing a few citizens.

I’m not in favor of an armed intervention, but saying “reap it” is a smack in the face to our members in Virginia, California, Colorado, and a dozen+ other states.

quote:

Also, the Venezuelan people are out in the streets constantly protesting, with no private firearms ownership allowed, in one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and against a dictatorship that has shown over and over again that they don’t mind killing a few citizens.

Yep.

Venezuelans regret gun ban, 'a declaration of war against an unarmed population'

CUCUTA, Venezuela/Colombia border – As Venezuela continues to crumble under the socialist dictatorship of President Nicolas Maduro, some are expressing words of warning – and resentment – against a six-year-old gun control bill that stripped citizens of their weapons.

“Guns would have served as a vital pillar to remaining a free people, or at least able to put up a fight,” Javier Vanegas, 28, a Venezuelan teacher of English now exiled in Ecuador, told Fox News. “The government security forces, at the beginning of this debacle, knew they had no real opposition to their force. Once things were this bad, it was a clear declaration of war against an unarmed population.”

https://www.foxnews.com/world/...e-defended-ourselves

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
Why would this be our problem.

To keep Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba out of there.

I agree. We are not talking about Iraq or Afghanistan. This is too close to us to let the commies get a foorhold or even a takeover.

You do realize that the majority of countries South of the Rio Grande are either openly anti-US or, have a seathing undercurrent of Marxism/socialism; that foothold has been available for quite some time. Over half the political parties at play in most of those countries, to varying degrees, are openly hostile to the US. The radicals with the most fiery messages get elected, their economy tanks because of their poor education/perspective and the cycle repeats itself. Supposed allies like Russian/China kick-tires, realize that morons are in-charge, population is largely limited to menial labor and/or, understand the distance and investment needed to establish a presence, isn't worth it.

US involvement simply stays as is: politically engaged to support our allies, who are the directly in the line-of-fire while maintaining assets operating out of Aruba & Curacao with the Dutch, Antigua/Barbuda, and Colombia

I might be supportive of some airstrikes to take out any airforce or armor they have.

And no issue with selling them weapons - hell, we used to sell guns to revolutionaries all over.

Otherwise, let them sort their own stuff out. The commies already nationalized all the assets American companies had there - if those companies work a deal to get their stuff back, if they send in enough mercs, let them pay for it.

This should be doable without sending US troops in. Covert and/or contract forces might be necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
Why would this be our problem.

To keep Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba out of there.