Octane is not the only difference in fuel. A premium octane fuel most often contains more gasoline performance additive. The chemistry within actually removes combustion caused deposits. A higher treat rate provides more complete cleaning.

Major fuel retailers also seek to provide better performance in friction reduction and oxidation control by requiring additive with more and different chemistry.

The base fuel is fungible but the additized fuels differ.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
I’m mostly a ‘price & convenience’ guy, consider it mostly close enough.

My sister is into brands a little bit. She swears her ‘mileage to empty’ on the dash shows higher miles to go with the ‘better gas’. The assumes the tank is completely full, each time.

I’ve never tested it myself, see if there is any difference.

UMMMM mileage to empty is based upon your average fuel economy prior to putting more fuel into the tank.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
The number of Top Tier gasoline brands is much larger than most people realize (~70 brands).

BP isn't Top Tier?

I, too, found it odd that BP isn't listed as being a Top Tier fuel licensee either on the Top Tier Fuel website or BP's own fuel website.

Here's a discussion about it on BITOG:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/for...ger-top-tier.346969/ discussion about it from BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy):

I always fill up at the same gas station, my local Costco, for all of our vehicles, so they get Top Tier gas. We're fortunate that our Costco never has lines, I always pull up to a pump without waiting.

No specific brand, but unless I’m on a trip it’s typically Samsclub, Kroger or Costco just due to convenience or price. But I usually replace our vehicles after about 20 years of use, so maybe it would make more difference if we kept them longer.

There are two gas stations in our little town, a non-branded BFS and (Top Tier) Sunoco which are side by side. I fill at the Sunoco station since they're both the same price. They are generally filled one after the other from the same truck and my hunch is it's the same gasoline. Next time I notice them being filled I'll make a point to speak with the driver.
When I'm somewhere else I look for Mobil, Shell, or Exxon. The neighboring town has Sheetz which sells non-ethanol 90 octane which I use for the power equipment and some of the motorcycles.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
The number of Top Tier gasoline brands is much larger than most people realize (~70 brands).

BP isn't Top Tier?

Not currently. I believe both BP and Amoco used to be.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
There are two gas stations in our little town, a non-branded BFS and (Top Tier) Sunoco which are side by side. I fill at the Sunoco station since they're both the same price. They are generally filled one after the other from the same truck and my hunch is it's the same gasoline. Next time I notice them being filled I'll make a point to speak with the driver.

I'll bet against you (i.e. not the same gasoline). Sunoco is additized with their proprietary additive and the non-branded is additized with generic additive.

There are multiple compartments in the tanker trucks and there are multiple additive tanks at the loading rack. If a gas station doesn't do enough business for an entire tanker truck it's completely normal to have two different company's additive packages in different compartments and deliver to two gas stations. Heck, if there are 5 compartments it's possible to deliver to 5 differently additized gasolines to 5 different gas stations.

I grew up in a family that only bought Shell or Chevron so as a young driver I followed suit.

One of my best friends worked at the Shell refinery in Martinez, CA for years. He was emphatic that all the gas we buy is essentially the same since it is all held to the same standards and that most brands were just throwing in their own proprietary detergent additives so they could charge a premium. He said you could add your own additives in the quantity you want and essentially do the same thing (if you thought it necessary).

He said the much bigger issue was filling it up at a station that had just received their fuel shipment causing their tanks to stir up sediment to the top therefore putting sediment through your fuel filter. He said basically if you see a tanker truck at a station or leaving one keep driving to the next station.

The octane of gas (premium vs regular) only matters in a modern fuel injected engine dependent upon compression and tune (the higher the compression the higher the octane is required to prevent pinging). "Premium" 91 octane fuel in your stock Honda Civic, Toyota Tacoma, or Ford F-150 is wasted. A BMW M5 where the manufacturer calls for 93 octane? Sure. My older carbureted Harley-Davidsons running higher compression? Sure, I put in the highest octane I can buy and tune the carb and ignition advance accordingly.

For 20 years now I've followed his advice and primarily purchase Costco or Arco depending on what is more convenient. If I see a tanker anywhere near the station I drive on. I've put over 500,000 miles combined between the various vehicles I own without clogged fuel filters and other issues.

In certain vehicles I'll occasionally use Sea Foam or Marvel Mystery oil (as directed by their manufacturers). Is it necessary? Probably not, but does it hurt? I don't think so.

In that 500k+ miles I'm pretty sure I've saved a decent amount of money by not buying Chevron Premium at every fill up.

I have a turbo vehicle, thus have a premium recommended (not "required") label on car. I have a Wawa station which carries 89 ethanol-free gas and a Sunoco as my local choices. Yes, most of us out here know Wawa is just ok gas. What I have noticed is that my car gets almost 2 mpg better (8%) on blue pump gas than Sunoco 93. Pick up is same or better in my very unscientific passing zone tests . In other cars with regular being fine, Wawa gas is also known to deliver less fuel economy.

What I'd like to know is would the deposit issue be better or worse with ethanol-free?

Least expensive I can put in the thing.
Honda has 400,000 on 3 of the original injectors.
One stopped at 150K. The new one has 250K on it.

My 2015 Rouge had 265K on it's original injectors and no issues.

I put Chevron 91 in everything I have since the Chevron is about a quarter mile from my home.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
Not currently. I believe both BP and Amoco used to be.

They lost it around 2022 or so, I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
I work for a multinational oil & gas company who refines gasoline, and I use the least expensive top tier regardless of brand. The number of Top Tier gasoline brands is much larger than most people realize (~70 brands). If you set your filters on an app like Gas Buddy right then you'll see the cheapest Top Tier gasoline near you. IME, Top Tier prices can vary by $0.30 per gallon in a square mile.

If you look into it, gasoline is fungible coming out of the refinery. The differentiator is the additive and quantity of additive. The additives are added at the loading rack at the distribution terminal, and every distribution terminal I've been to has a huge generic additive tank and several name brand additive tanks. The trailers that deliver to the gas stations all have multiple compartments and they're bottom loading so drain completely dry making it possible to load gasoline with Shell's additive, drop off at Shell station, return to distribution terminal, load gasoline with Chevron's additive, drop off at Chevron station, return to distribution terminal, load gasoline with Exxon's gasoline additive, drop off at Exxon station, rinse and repeat.

exactly,

re pricing

when I was a Store Manager for Kroger, we set prices at the store every day, sometimes several times a day,

each store had a list of competitors, and we checked them at least 2 times a day, AM and PM,

when prices got stupid as in swings, then we checked more, sometimes 4 or more times in a day,


Kroger would usually match the cheapest (remember using your card gave you a 3 cents discount , or did back then)
and once in a while, at corporate direction, woudl try to push the market up, or down,


profits on gas never mattered when I was working for them, we discussed Gallons per day or week, since the pricing was so 'fluid'

(and those discounts are written off as a Grocery advertising expense,,)

The only issues I've ever had with gas was when one of our local stations was having trouble with their tanks holding water. I was shocked to find after talking to one of the attendants that a certain amount of water in the tanks was acceptable and that they 'monitored it closely'. I always choose the newer looking stations if I'm in an unfamiliar area.

Y'all know WalMart SuperTech oil outperforms all the other major brands, right?

Have 340,000 on the Frontier and it's finally tired enough to need an engine. I could get away with a camshaft and lifters on one head, but it's getting a fresh engine.

Used whatever 87 octane fuel available and all injectors are original.

I think I put plugs in it at just over 225,000.

In my experience repairing cars, fuel injectors that stop working are rarely, almost never, actually clogged. Instead, the electric solenoid fails; sometimes they leak. Of the ones that were, one was a car that had sat outside for years with the gas cap off and the entire fuel system was trashed. On another, it was a used engine that had sat outside with the fuel rail (feeds the injectors) open. (One of many reasons why I dislike used engines.)

As for gas, outright contamination of gas fresh out of the pump is also rare. But it has happened. I had a first-generation Toyota Tundra with the gas so water-laden that it wouldn't even burn. Upon hearing this, the owner said "uh oh, I filled my other car from the same place." Oddly and notably, he wouldn't say where he got the gas. Most other fuel contamination is introduced purposely, i.e., sabotage. Sometimes people put wrong fuel altogether in their tanks, e.g., diesel in a gas (not sure how they managed that due to differing pump nozzle sizes) or gas in a diesel.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Sometimes people put wrong fuel altogether in their tanks, e.g., diesel in a gas (not sure how they managed that due to differing pump nozzle sizes)

Sometimes the fuel delivery guy majorly screws up and fills the underground gas tank with diesel.

That happened at a local high volume Sam's Club gas station around here in April 2023, on the Friday evening just before a busy weekend. Hundreds/thousands of people filled up before it was discovered and shut down on Monday morning.

Resulted in Walmart/Sam's Club footing a nice fat bill for a large number of claims.

Then there was the guy who filled his diesel - nearly empty at the time - with E85. Surprisingly, it didn't sound that bad. He got it to my then-workplace which was across the street, and it at least drove into the bay.