Some 20+ years ago, at a tool store, I spotted a pricey General Tools combination square. Walked up to the counter and asked "Is this $50 square really all that much better than my el-Cheapo combination square?" "Depends on if you want 'square' to be square," he replied. I did, so I bought it.

Later checked it with a machinist's square. Dead nuts on the money.

That square has served me well all these years. Then, yesterday, it fell off my workspace when I was running the rotary hammer, fell to the concrete floor, on the long end of the blade, and snapped off the bit that secures the blade.

I almost cried (But, being a warrior, I'm not allowed to cry. So I swore a lot, instead.)

Doing my homework it looks like what it's going to take to get a combination square with that level of accuracy and that will maintain it with use is going to be a $110 to $130 Starrett.

Any dissenters?

No, but research Woodpeckers stuff too. I have a couple of their squares (yes they are expensive), and I love them.

I've done a hell of a lot of aircraft sheet metal and other work using a variety of combo squares, mostly craftsman and other, none very expensive. No issues, ever. I don't think I'd ever spend that much for a combination square. To each his own.

If you can get a Starrett for that kind of money you won't be disappointed.

I have a Mitutoyo set (square head, center head & protractor head) for about the last forty years. I think I paid about $80 way back then. It may have been less, but I do remember thinking it was a lot of money.

Never regretted it.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
No, but research Woodpeckers stuff too. I have a couple of their squares (yes they are expensive), and I love them.

^^^ this ^^^^

Awesome stuff!

Look for the part on eBay or find the part number and do a search. You may be able to replace the broken part. Sounds like you are describing the blade lock.
https://www.mscdirect.com/brow..._zirCJhoCfAEQAvD_BwE
The newer General stuff doesn't look that great to me.
New or used, I'd stick with Starrett or Brown & Sharpe. They are both great quality and parts are available for a long time.

You can also find a good used one for much less.
For example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown...4:g:OksAAOSwuU9dUtVR

Yes. Very necessary. Specialized tools, especially measuring tools, are the foundation of our economy.

I use a $115 hand plane even though a similar plane is available for $35. My $4 pen writes better than a 69¢ pen. I'll spare you a dissertation on boots. :-) But the better tools perform better.

My Starrett is great. End gradations for measuring in two dimensions at once.

I have a Starrett (blue one) and absolutely love it. I use it to verify my Carpenter's square.

My own needs are that a standard 'carpenter square' serves well enough at infrequent instances, the bigger issue is the encroaching rust making reading them an issue.

A few years ago at a farm sale I came across a perfectly 'looks new' ALUMINUM model for $2 cash.

Solved that problem nicely.

I have two different combination squares I use. One is a 6" mitutuyo that cost about 50 (10 years ago) and is great for small layout. The other is a 12" Bridge City, brass and rosewood inlays, with a precision certificate. Wife got it for me as a gift and I know she spent more than she should of. Love it, but they went out of business so they can't be bought new anymore (also collectable so old ones get pretty good bucks).

Spend the money and get yourself precision tools, you'll never regret the investment.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
If you can get a Starrett for that kind of money you won't be disappointed.

I have a Mitutoyo set (square head, center head & protractor head) for about the last forty years. I think I paid about $80 way back then. It may have been less, but I do remember thinking it was a lot of money.

Never regretted it.

The Mitutoyo set with all three heads is now about $300.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Any dissenters?

Nope, just don't drop the new one

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Any dissenters?

Even though Starrett has a good reputation for quality and high cost (deservedly so), and even though LaRoy S. Starrett invented the combination square, there are other well made (in the USA) brands of equal utility quality. PEC is a well respected USA brand whose quality is very close to Starrett. For a combination square, the differences would probably be undetectable. You can pick up a new PEC 12" CS for $80 at Amazon, or a blemished one at Harry Epstein American Made Tools for $25-$35.
 
I used a 12" Stanley bought in 1973 for 25 years of full time millwork. I still have it and it remains as accurate as it was 40+ years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:PEC is a well respected USA brand whose quality is very close to Starrett. For a combination square, the differences would probably be undetectable. You can pick up a new PEC 12" CS for $80 at Amazon, or a blemished one at Harry Epstein American Made Tools for $25-$35.

Another shout-out to Product Engineering Corporation ("PEC") products. I've got half a dozen of their BLEM rulers.

Are you using it professionally? Exactly for what?

I like nice tools, but what is actually necessary may not be expensive.

I think it depends if you are working in a machine shop or woodshop. I doubt there are any consumer grade power miter saws that can cut a board to that standard of squareness.

You know you won't be happy until you appropriately replace the broken tool. It has nothing to do with need at this point. You must put right, that which hath gone awry. Get the $130 Starrett (one time expense) and live long knowing your square is better than mine!

Those are NOT rulers. Rulers are made from wood or plastic.

Those are scales.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by rbert0005:
Those are NOT rulers. Rulers are made from wood or plastic.

Those are scales.

Bob

I've always seen them called "rules" - that's how all the manufacturers label them. E.g., Starrett: https://www.starrett.com/categ...ecision-rules/111101

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
No, but research Woodpeckers stuff too. I have a couple of their squares (yes they are expensive), and I love them.

Woodpeckers does not make a combination square.

quote:

Originally posted by alinc100:
I'd be apt to call General and see if that part is available. ... If that fails you I most likely have a used/parts/FrankenSquare organ donor.

The part in question is 1/4 in. in diameter, ±1-1/2 in. long, and the flat is ±1/2 in. long.

I suspect many combination squares, and other tools with the same locking mechanism, share that same part.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Look for the part on eBay or find the part number and do a search. You may be able to replace the broken part. Sounds like you are describing the blade lock.

Yes: The blade lock. The bit that cams into the scale's groove snapped off.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Any dissenters?

Nope, just don't drop the new one

Yeah, I'll try not to make that mistake again!

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:
You can pick up a new PEC 12" CS for $80 at Amazon...

So I looked. 3.6 stars out of 5, and numerous complaints about wildly varying quality control. Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll pass.

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:
I used a 12" Stanley bought in 1973 for 25 years of full time millwork. I still have it and it remains as accurate as it was 40+ years ago.

That old-ish General Tools square was, too.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Are you using it professionally? Exactly for what?

I like nice tools, but what is actually necessary may not be expensive.

I tend to be quite precise in how I do things. E.g. (partial list):

• Yesterday I pre-assembled the studs that'll go in the corner of the two concrete walls with two selected pieces of dimensional lumber. Why? Because the corner is not square. Or plumb. I'll fit this pre-assembled bit in place. Then it will be.
  
• Doing the foamboard insulation for the Man Cave Project I probably fit the that insulation more precisely than many would, say, finish carpentry. I guaran-fracking-tee you that room has zero air or moisture leaks.
  
• I rebuilt part of the existing framing because it was crap. I didn't like what I'd done, either. So the next day I ripped it all out and re-did it again. Now it's right.
  
• The rough-in for the door is so square, so plumb, I probably could've sized it for door height and width, minus door frame thickness. But I left room for shimming, anyway, because That's The Way It's Done.
  

It's either right or it is not. It's the way I roll.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
I think it depends if you are working in a machine shop or woodshop. I doubt there are any consumer grade power miter saws that can cut a board to that standard of squareness.

First of all: I almost never buy or use "consumer grade" anything. My Makita 10" sliding-table compound miter saw can cut to that standard of squareness because I aligned it. My Delta 10" Contractor's Saw is also that precise. Flattened its table--upon which I'd replaced the stamped steel wings with cast iron wings, and aligned it.

I built a pantry for my wife with those saws. Shelves are 4 ft. long by 14 in. deep, made of cabinet grade 3/4 in. ply. Those shelves don't have but about 1/32 in. difference, corner-to-corner.

I'd never make it as a contractor


Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, everybody. I'm going to see if I can rescue my old GT square. If not, then I guess it'll be the Starrett. In the meantime, the $11 Empire I bought at HD is square, or so says my machinist's square, for now.

I gotta have a square that's square.